What were the best Panzer divisions?

It doesn't matter. Which division or even unit do you respect the most?

Are you asking me? Why, the 5th Guards Tank Army of course, who else? The ones who (for instance) stopped the dreaded II SS-Panzerkorps on the way to Prokhorovka (which was anyway already far from the way to Kursk, but that's another kettle of fish).

Smoke and mirrors, nothing like the cold shower of reality.



I thought we'd moved away from 'what/who was best ....' type threads years ago.
We're not that type of forum anymore are we?

Ah yes, wrong forum for that kind of exercise. That's one of the reasons I moved here.

Vet, it would be a lot better if you asked for a recommended book list, you'd get better reception than this puerile "10 Best Whatever" a la Discovery Channel Turbo stuff. Best yet, if asking for a recommended book list, if you did read the damned books. Like I said, wrong forum for that.

 

What, no Red Banner Armies?

 

The initiator of this thread is no longer with us

 

What, no Red Banner Armies?

But....I was talking to Za....:p

 

12SS Hitler Jugend.

Sapper

 

12SS made a good show in Normandy but that's all. After that they never managed to achieve anything. All in all a very poor record.

 

12SS made a good show in Normandy but that's all. After that they never managed to achieve anything. All in all a very poor record.


Who was the best, not who had the best record.


and I guess Saps is speaking from direct experience......

kev

 

You obviously never came up against them my friend. They were the toughest imaginable, even when beaten they never gave up.
22th SS Panzer Div.They put The Adolf Hitler Leibstandarte SS Panzer's to shame. As well as the Das Reich No2 SS Panzer Div. (They of Orador sur Glan atrocities)
Sapper

 

Will somebody care to explain what good will come out of a "my father's dick is bigger than your father's" style thread, if you please?

 

I never came up against them but I know quite a lot of veterans from 12SS. They were simply not "The best panzer division" (nor was Leibstandarte or Das Reich or any other SS division). Let's turn this around: you came up against them. How do you know none of the dozens of other panzer divisions never gave up even when beaten? No offense, but I've met other veterans who believed that the division they were up against was thougher and better than all the others. Ask any veteran from "Old Hickory" and he'll tell you the Leibstandarte was the best, ask a veteran from 1st Airborne and he'll say Hohenstauffen, etc., etc., etc. That's my point.

 

Felldedhalle DIV member Kurt Knispel was the top scoring tank commander in the war but was never given the Knights Cross

 

Will somebody care to explain what good will come out of a "my father's dick is bigger than your father's" style thread, if you please?

It has to do with the posters inability to carry out meaningful discussions while accepting differing points of view. I think it all has to do with upbringing and the family environment they were raised in. Most of "our" communication and problem solving skills are things we picked up from observing our parents and if our parents had a dysfunctional communication style then "we" are doomed to repeat the same mistakes; unless "you" make an effort to break the lerned habits.

In this age of the interweb eveyone has just as much access to information as the next person and most of that information is someone else's interpetation of what actually occured. You need to read the entire article, not just the parts that support your view, it provides the context. Checking sources and citing references is also prudent as it provides the other half of the discussion/ argument with "your" perspective.

The best source is getting a first hand non regurgitated account.

Brad

 

Kurt Knispel was a member of the 12. Panzer-Division, then the independant 503. schwere Panzer-Abteilung. The latter was only attached to the Feldherrnhalle division in December 1944 and destroyed three months later.

 

For me it's the 9th SS-Panzer Division Hohenstaufen... Normandy, Falaise, Arnhem, Hungary, Ardennes and all that.

 

Okay, and in which of the mentioned operations was Hohenstauffen really succesful, apart from Arnhem?

 

How about the 2nd Panzer Division. Fought in most of the major campaigns and performed well...

The 2nd Panzer Division (2. Panzer-Division) was created in 1935, and stationed in Austria after the Anschluss. It participated in the campaigns in Poland (1939) and France (1940), and then returned to Poland for occupation duties (1940-1941). It took part in the Balkans campaign (1941) and then transferred to the Russian Front in September 1941. It fought with Army Group Center in the battles of Moscow (1941) and Kursk (1943). After heavy losses on the Russian Front it was sent to France for rehabilitation (1944). It fought in Normandy and was almost completely destroyed in the Falaise Pocket (1944). It was rebuilt once more and fought in the Battle of the Bulge (1944) and in the defense of the Rhine (1945), surrendering to the Americans at war's end.

 

... apart from Arnhem? Not to be dismissed that one.

 

... apart from Arnhem? Not to be dismissed that one.
True, but to be nominated for "the best panzer division" just Arnhem can't be enough. As far as I know they didn't show any outstanding performances during other operations.

 

Yeah, R., but that divisonal sign was kewl!

 

Any Pz Div that was still active at the end, May 45.