What the Germans could see of the Dover Area from France ?

I have bought a original set of photos taken from France ? by the Germans, that put in a line is about 5ft long. It`s What the Germans could see of the Folkstone Dover Area from France and In one of the photos i can see Barrage balloons near the radar masts , in the Dover, Folkstone area i can not see any and i think there is snow on the ground, so could this photo have been taken in 1939-40 . Here are just a few of them.
I wonder if photos could have been taken by plane ? or ship ?.
Keith

 

Hi Keth

I'm not sure that the Germans in the winter of 1939- 40 would have had access to take those pictures, from June/July 1940 onwards perhaps. I also note the names are written in English not German.

Interesting photos though. I have been reading the WD's for 182 Inf Bde HQ that my father was attached to and were based in Dover (1942 - 1945) and the number of shells that the Germans popped over is incredible.

TD

 

I would think that the photographs were as a result of land based high powered lenses and then made up by as a montage.In the Pas de Calais there is sufficient high ground above the Channel for such photographs to be taken.

There is something similar in the English version of the German propaganda magazine Signal

The winter of 1939/1940 was a particular bad winter but as far a the photographs go,the Germans were not in a position to photograph the Channel until the defeat of France in the summer of 1940.

 

Thanks for sharing them, they are interesting.

I'm not sure they are actual photo's though. They look more like the format used for those picture/photo/drawing you found in books published around 1940 to 1960 ?

I'm sure someone will know what I mean

 

The photos are printed on German photo paper and are just under 2 inch`s wide and about 5 ft long joined up. I thought they were taken when the Germans were in France but the lack of defence in Dover -Folkstone makes me think maybe phoney war time.
is saule with the - on top of the a German that is on one other of the photos ? and Schlob Dover
To me they look like the type of photos that were taken for D Day by the allies in 1944 coast area.
The red xxxxx on one of the photos i put on so you could see the BBs.

Keith

 

I think it's Schloss Dover (Dover Castle). The 'B' letter is called an eszett, or sharp S (I don't know German, I got this from Wikipaedia).

 

Schloss is the German word for Castle - the double 'ss' is written 'ß'

Hmm - the first set of photos seem to be written in English yet the second set seem to be in German :mellow:

TD

 

Its all the same set just one piece was broken off. that`s why its in two.

 

The word Säule (a with two dots) means pillar in English, but what about chimney or tower. Was/is there anything like that around there?

Keith, you said it is on German photo paper, anything written on it like Agfa for example?

Stefan

 

Yes the photos have Agfa Lupex all over the back in black. I have put it in red.
Here is a link i just found on Agfa-Lupex photo paper.
http://lwcollectibles.blogspot.pt/2007/09/agfa-photopaper.html
Keith

 

Here is one other photo from my collection with the English coast in the background , info on the back of photo..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dover_Patrol


edit: here's another German cross Channel photo.
http://www.dovermuseum.co.uk/Information-Resources/The-Collection/Cross-Channel-Shelling,-World-War-Two.aspx
Dover Patrol could be what was called Säule on one of the pics.

Stefan.

 

According to this link, your photopaper is Agfa-Lupex wartime.

Stefan.

 

Here is a close up.
Thank`s guys for the input so-far. Any one have a guess at the date/year the photos were taken?.

 

Part of the ww2 Secret tunnels of the White Cliffs of Dover are above the red xxxxx ?. you can see the open parts.

 

From the English version of Signal.....two views of the English coastline are shown accompanied by the usual arrogant propaganda evident possibly in anticipation of Sealion.

The German caption relates........;Seen with the hawk's eye of a modern telephoto; Dover.Photographed from an aeroplane at a distance of 12.5 miles:From Dover Castle (on the right) up to the entrance of the harbour (on the left),from the jetty to the highest barrage balloon,every detail of the British Channel Port can be discerned.The telephoto camera which our war correspondents have used in the German Army since the Polish Campaign has been further developed during the war.Sharper than the eye of a hawk,its infra red ray sensitive plates and hims (in text possible German error) can pierce through miles of mist and fog.A black or red filter is fixed in front of the lens of the camera,for absorbing the long wave infra red rays invisible to he naked eye,and for eliminating the undesired short waves.A special process,of German invention,enables the infra red sensitiveness of the negative to be increased one hundredfold:this allows the telephoto camera to take pictures with extremely rapid exposures.

Illustration below : a section of the cliffs on the coast between Dover and Deal north east of Dover.Every furrow and undulation is visual.

Montage too large for scanning...Signal English edition aimed at the US when neutral and the occupied Channel Islands

In the first montage,10 barrage balloons are clearly shown,being white against a dark cloud background....montage would give approximate location of balloon tethering

 

The question of what the Germans could see across the Channel brings to mind the tragedy of the liberty ship Sambut, which was sunk off Dover on D-Day.

The Sambut was sailing in convoy to Normandy, carrying 562 troops from 28 different units as well as 63 crew, plus vehicles, weapons and large quantities of ammunition and high explosives.

At around noon on June 6, 1944, it was struck by two shells from long-range German guns, probably sited in Calais. Fierce fires broke out - the attached picture shows the vessel ablaze - and the captain ordered the ship abandoned.

It was unclear if the shells had been aimed or were just lucky shots. But one theory is that the German gunners had spotted the ship’s barrage balloon silhouetted against the white cliffs of Dover.

One survivor, Bill Wills, recalled how, just as they were off Dover, a Naval escorting vessel came alongside and an officer using a megaphone ordered the master to lower the Sambut’s barrage balloon.

‘I don’t know if the master had time to comply, as shortly afterwards the shells struck. It is very likely the Germans used the balloon to lay their guns.’

Another survivor, Tom Cribb, recalled that the balloon was ordered to be lowered because ‘it was obviously too high because the Germans could see it against the cliffs’.

The master of the Sambut, Captain Mark Willis, said in a report: ‘I would like to point out that the convoy did not use a smokescreen. After my vessel was struck, I started my own smoke apparatus and other ships in the convoy followed my example.’

The death toll on the Sambut was 136 – 130 soldiers and six crew. The wreck lies near the Goodwin Sands.

 

Here is the WD page from 182 Inf Bde (HQ) based at Dover Castle for that time. You will also see from reading the other entries that there was quite a bit of shelling happening at that time.



TD