What kind of service? Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Hello, it is possible to tell from a service record whether my grandad saw active service or if he was a clerk? He was in India for 3 and a half years with the Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers. Thank you.

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

I think you’ll need to post the service record before members can offer an informed opinion.

Steve

 

Thank you, I thought that may be the case. I will post later today.

 

Here is the record, as promised. All help is welcome. Thank you.

 

I've rotated them for you so others don't have to. (Any chance of better images?)

 

I can try but they are poor anyway. Leave it with me.

 

Thanks Diane. I agree better quality images would help.

I haven’t read all the forms due to legibility but B102 appears to be the most helpful in providing the answer to the question.

I see mention that his Army trade was Clerk - from 1944 or is it 1946?

He could’ve been employed in HQ Company or as a clerk in one of the “fighting” companies. The answer might be in the file but it is too poor quality for me to read closely.

Equally I can’t make out his unit and whether it remained “behind the lines” on internal security duties in India or was deployed in the “fighting” areas of India & Burma.

In simple terms (opinion could be revised if I could read the file more closely) - if the company was in offensive action his duties as an infantry soldier would take primacy and he would be armed and be ready to perform the duties of a rifleman as required. Any clerical tasks and admin would kept to the minimum while the unit was in action.

If he was in HQ Company he might not be in the immediate front line in an offensive situation as the CO would need to exercise effective command & control or he could even be in “B Echelon” some distance further back.

In a Battalion/Company defensive situation all men would be required to defend the position and clerical tasks would take a back seat.

Steve

 

It helps to name him! I can see your subject is Peter Carroll, b. 14/12/1919 and he enlisted 15/2/1940.

His Service Number is: 6981130 and that was for the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers aka 'Skins'.

Oddly another number also appears on Photos 5 & 7: 1864493. That is a Royal Engineers number.

Wiki has a slim outline of the regiment's battalions. Wiki can help, sometimes it is wrong and too short: Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - Wikipedia The 1st served throughout WW2 in India-Burma and the 2nd went there and then came back to Europe.

 

Sorry everyone, I'm new to this and don't have your experience.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/q84DjmQB4ikBTWAL7 I really hope this works

 

Snoopy,

Thanks for the new photos, though not easy to assimilate!

TA (W) I think means he was in the Territorial Army and ready to serve worldwide
Class III and reclassified 30/1/1946 B III
Married (elsewhere date appears to be when back in UK) and a Roman Catholic

19/10/1941 Posted HQ 136 Infantry Brigade. Wiki explains role as training and 1st RIF was assigned from 17 November 1940 until 4 December 1941. See: 136th (2/1st Devon and Cornwall) Brigade - Wikipedia (Note another Wiki states 1st Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers were in India)

25/02/1942 Transferred to Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Numerous stints in hospital 1943-1944, all at Cawnpore (India) and each time returned to 1st RIF. The largest military base in India, known as a cantonment; now known as Kanpur, in Uttar Pradesh, India. See: Kanpur Cantonment - Wikipedia

Discipline record includes him being a deserter 21 or 25/3/1941 to 8/5/1941 (in the UK before going to India)

Note (top of record) 1/10/1945 Python - eligible for return to UK

24/10/1945 Embarks for UK
29/12/1945 Posted 25th Holding Battalion (presumably in UK, possibly an all-Northern Ireland unit for demobilization @ Congelton, Cheshire)

Discharged ? 30/1/1946

 

Thank you, that's really helpful. I'm not too tech-savvy at sharing photos on here or I would have made them make more sense!

 

davidbfpo .
It's R Innis F .
The RIF were the Royal Irish Fusiliers.

 

davidbfpo

TA (W) I think means he was in the Territorial Army and ready to serve worldwide -

No. It’s nothing to do with serving “worldwide”. It is regarding his conscription for wartime only service in TA under National Service Act. To be fair I’ve never seen such an entry previously as the only W used on service records is in relation to Class W Reserve - meaning released from the army to work in industry/civil occupation (Police etc).

Discharged ? 30/1/1946

No. That appears to be the date he was mustered as a Clerk in U.K. post war so my earlier post about a clerks duties “in action” is redundant.

He served until 7th June 1946 when he commenced his terminal leave. He went on to Class Z Reserve 11th Sept 1946.

 

Actually INNISKS, according to FSPB.

 

Quite right.
Now kicking myself for incorrectly correcting.
I'd even put that back in 2024 when davidbfpo last put RIF.

Looking for information on great grandfather

 

Struggling to make most out most of this writing, but there's a clue that he got at least reasonably close to the front line.

On the page where the first entry is "From Depot & T.O.S. 6/7/42", the unit looks like 1 INNISKS and the place Jullundur. That lines up with drafts of men and officers arriving to reform the 1st Battalion of the Inniskillings. War Diary page attached below.

Next two entries say he was in hospital for a couple of days, and the fourth and fifth lines I think say "Entrained". The place for the fifth line is Feni, which again exactly matches with the movements of 1st Battalion. Diary page attached, though here they have used the common alternative spelling of 'Fenny'.

The battalion then moved down to the Chittagong area, and by late December had crossed the frontier into Burma - part of 47 Indian Brigade, 14th Indian Division, engaged on the First Arakan Campaign. There are no entries to suggest that your grandfather was not with his unit during this period. Fighting on their sector quickly stalled and devolved into trench warfare, in which the battalion suffered very heavy casualties in a series of frontal attacks against Japanese bunkers. They were pulled back slightly for a brief rest in late January, but were sent back in during early February.

The next entry (line six) is especially significant: "Adm 41 Fd Amb To X(II) List 9/2/43". This means that he was treated by 41st (Indian) Field Ambulance, which provided medical cover for 47 Brigade. All elements of this field ambulance were deployed well forward in the Donbaik sector at that time, so he had to have been at least somewhere near the front to be admitted to their care. That looks like the end of his campaign as the next entry has him in hospital (47 BGH).

On 9/2/43 1 Innisk was moving back into the front line after their rest. The diary records no battle casualties that day, so it is unlikely that he was wounded in action. The most likely explanation is malaria, which was claiming dozens of victims every day at that time.

If I have that right then he certainly saw some 'active service'. It's hard to be sure if he held some sort of clerical role at this point or if it was something he only moved to later, but it's almost a moot point. As Slim said, "there are no non-combatants in the jungle" (or something like that...). Donbaik in particular was a bloody awful spot. Even if he was typing orders at 1 Innisks Battalion HQ he was within range of Japanese 75mm guns. The front and the whole line of communication just behind were being frequently strafed and bombed by Japanese aircraft (and sometimes the RAF...). The jungled hills on their left flank were not secure and were occasionally infiltrated by Japanese snipers and local pro-Japanese guerrillas. Not a healthy place to be stuck no matter what your job.

 

I noticed that the bottom of the front page B103 records the award of the 1939/43 Star so he clearly saw active service.

 

That's really helpful, thank you. To be clear, he's no less a hero if he did drive a desk and I'm proud anyway.

We thought malaria most likely but I did worry at one point that there was a snake involved. I now know what python is....

 

I'm back, sorry I've found a note that says "age service GP 30C". Would this be a unique demob number? Thank you.

 

Hi,

It appears to be saying thst his age & service (A&S) group for Class A post war demobilisation purposes was 30C. Don’t know relevance, if any, of GP.

An equitable demobilisation scheme was created in 1944 to manage the smooth post war demobilisation process.

A matrix was created using the year of birth and month of conscription/enlistment (starting from September 1939 meaning regular soldiers got no “credit” for pre war service).

Men were allocated to an A&S group and were demobilised under Class A in strict A&S group order.

Class B demobilisation was for men with a skill useful to the postwar rebuilding of the country - included tradesmen & Police etc.

Men could request Class B demobilisation and if approved by the Ministry of Labour they would be directed to work for a named employer - often their last employer before conscription/enlistment. They couldn’t move to a “better” job without Ministry approval. Class B men did not get terminal leave like Class A men.

Steve