What is a "Boys" rifle?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by jimbotosome, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    TonyE.

    I seem to remember a discussion regarding the spelling (Boys Vs Boyes) where someone claiming to be the Captain's daughter (or it might have been Grand daughter) saying categorically that it is Boyes.
    But it wasn't on this forum, and it was certainly more that 10 years ago.

    Just to muddy the waters (walters)!

    David.
     
  2. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    I prefer to work from original source documents. I have copies of the minutes of various committee meetings that Cpt.Boys served on and his name is spelled that way on all of them.

    He was also the editor and author of the Textbook of Small Arms 1929.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
  3. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Can't argue with that!
     
  4. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    That link includes this quote:

    As Biber-class submarines submarines didn't come into service until late 1944, if the above is story is true then the Boys must still have been part of the inventory of Allied forces during the North-West Europe campaign of 1944-45.

    The general ubiquity of the Boys throughout the war tends to indicate to me that whatever shortcomings it may have had in the narrow anti-armour role, there was probably a general need for a hard-hitting rifle that could be utilised in any number of ad hoc ways.

    So the Boys rifle was not "useless", it was "useful", just not necessarily in the role it was originally intended.
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Continuing my current IWM Collections obsession (sorry).
    [​IMG]
    COMMONWEALTH FORCES IN NORTH AFRICA 1940. © IWM (E 699)IWM Non Commercial Licence

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    THE BRITISH ARMY PREPARES FOR WAR. © IWM (ARMY TRAINING 1/13)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 10646)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 2381)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 2384)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 1071)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY PREPARES FOR WAR. © IWM (ARMY TRAINING 2/19a)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY PREPARES FOR WAR. © IWM (ARMY TRAINING 2/19)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 17605)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    ALLIED FORCES IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 16621)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45. © IWM (H 23857)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1940. © IWM (F 2441)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN FRANCE 1939-40. © IWM (O 758)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    THE POLISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, 1940-47. © IWM (H 5658)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    Some other AT Rifles, WW1&2


    [​IMG]
    MINISTRY OF INFORMATION FIRST WORLD WAR OFFICIAL COLLECTION. © IWM (Q 9289)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE COLLECTION. © IWM (Q 111226)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    NEW ZEALAND FORCES ON THE WESTERN FRONT. © IWM (Q 11264)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    PTRD anti-tank rifle. © IWM (FIR 9453)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    Polish wz35 anti-tank rifle. © IWM (FIR 9018)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [img=http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/247/media-247446/large.jpg?action=e&cat=weapons%2520and%2520ammunition[/URL]
    Mauser Tank-Gewehr anti-tank rifle. © IWM (FIR 9078)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    Polish wz35 anti-tank rifle. © IWM (FIR 9018)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    Some other approaches to AT & Rifles that cropped up:
    [​IMG]
    THE HOME GUARD 1939-45. © IWM (H 22061)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    Grenade, rifle, anti-tank, No 68 Drill. © IWM (MUN 1555)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    [​IMG]
    Grenade, Rifle No 44 A.T. (Anti Tank). © IWM (MUN 3216)IWM Non Commercial Licence
     
  6. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  7. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Von P:

    Are those Indian trainees planning to get really drunk after they finish their weapons drill?
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Maybe petrol drinking was the only way to deal with Charlie's kick...
     
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  10. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    I recently acquired this full crate of 160 rounds of .55 inch Boys Armour Piercing W Mark II.

    It was part of a lot that came back from Portuguese Macao about thirty years ago, The close up of the white label shows the address of the army commander in Macao.

    ...and don't worry, all legal and on my Section 5.

    Regards
    TonyE
     

    Attached Files:

    Za Rodinu and CL1 like this.
  11. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Aha, that brings me to another part of the Boys rifle story.

    The Chinese Nationalist army got some Boys rifles during WWII. They proved useful in the postwar era after the Nationalists holed up on Taiwan. The Nationalist garrisons on the islands closest to the Chinese mainland were subject to occasional harassing fire from the Reds, and the Nationalists used the Boys for long range retaliatory sniping. That can't have been easy without a telescopic sight. I don't have any more information, I got this much from a Korean War site. But the PLA occasionally fired across the Hong Kong border, and if they did the same at Macao perhaps the Portuguese used the Boys in the same way as the Nationalist Chinese.
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I simply had no idea the Portuguese Army had ever used the Boys! But the we inherited so much hand me down stuff from the British and Canadian Armies that I'm not surprised. In any case it's the first time I see it mentioned. I don't think the Portuguese ever fired anything across the border at Macau (spelling ;) ), quite the opposite both sides took pains to avoid any semblance of conflict. Minimum contact but no conflict either.
     
  13. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    See below experience in France 1940 with Boys Rifle, from left to right, 4/7 Dragoons, 5 Inniskillen Dragoons, 13/18 Hussars, 15/19 Hussars.
     

    Attached Files:

    Orwell1984 and CL1 like this.
  14. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Ad Hoc firing trial of Boys rifle against Panzer I, North Africa Dec. 1941, as part of visit to Libya by Lt. Col J.A. Barlow and Major R.D. Neville.

    Tank successfully penetrated from 300 yds from side, front and rear.

    Boys2.jpg

    Relevant Photos:

    Pz-I.jpg
     
    Orwell1984 and Owen like this.
  15. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    Very interesting, thanks.

    It shows the Boys did what it was designed to do against the armour it was expected to meet in 1936.

    Regards
    Tonye
     
  16. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    Following my previous post I recently had the opportunity to fire a few rounds from a .55 inch Boys. This particular weapon is a Canadian made rifle by John Inglis and was issued to the US Marines in the Pacific theatre.

    I had fired a Boys on a couple of occasions previously but that was one converted in the US to fire the .50 Browning cartridge and I was keen to try it in its original calibre.

    The recoil is robust to say the least, noticeably more than the .50 version, but still manageable in the prone position. Do not though make the mistake I did. Unbeknown to me, a fired case had rolled beneath me and on firing the next round the recoil drove me back and the edge of the case caught me right under my breastbone. It was agony to breath deeply for the next couple of days!

    I think more unpleasant than the recoil is the muzzle blast. The Canadian version has a different muzzle brake to the British Boys, being rectangular with holes on each side. Even with good ear defenders on, the blast is vicious.

    The second picture is completely off topic but I could not resist posting it.

    Regards
    TonyE
     

    Attached Files:

    dbf likes this.
  17. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Thanks for that, Tony, nice to get a user's report. I had read about how bad the recoil and blast were, but your post really brings it home. More objections from the infantryman's point of view, obviously.

    Nice pictures as well, the shells are huge. Mind you, that bipod on the MG08/15 looks awfully precarious. Everytime I see one of those I think they must have been brutal to fire as well as carry.
     
  18. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Please see below opinion of GHQ ME Forces regarding Boys rifle in Nov. 42.

    100_1089.jpg
     
    Orwell1984 likes this.
  19. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    Would you happen to have the page showing the present/recommended scales of issue for Atk rifles, as I'd be very interested to see it.

    Gary
     
  20. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    I don't think that table was included IIRC.

    Anyway, the file is WO 201/2581, so it might be worth someone checking again.
     

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