The wartime vicar of the church I attend in Liverpool made a list of those of the parish known to have lost their lives. He was not very accurate, or possibly was fed wrong data. We are left with a few names which have puzzled me for ten years and I throw myself into this forum for the first time in the hope that some Sherlock can unlock the problems. I have used CWGC and Geoff's Wonderul Search Engine to no effect. These are the names, with such detail as was entered by the vicar, with my comments in italic: COOK(E), L. Died 23/7/43. Res: Oakland Road. Nothing found, except a T.A.Cooke at 21 Oakland Road in Kelly’s Directory for 1939. (Lpool Voters Reg for 1938/9 also Thomas & Maureen Cooke at 21.) FORMBY, E.O. Radio Officer, Merchant Navy. Died ?/2/41. Res: South Mossley Hill Road. Nothing found except in Kelly’s for 1941: Joseph F Kelly at No 105. Merseyside Maritime Museum has a list of radio officers whose lives were lost, but there is no Formby among them. JONES, H. Flight Sergeant, Royal Air Force Died: 31/12/40. Res: Brabant Road, Aigburth. Too many with this name to trace. KENNEDY, N. Died 15/7/39. Res: North Sudley Road. No service details in original list - also date is before start of war. No Kennedy found in this road in Kelly’s 1939, but Mrs A. I. KENNY was at No 54. Many thanks in advance for any help or suggestions. Daggers
There's one way round your Jones problem; trawl through MCP's Bomber Command Losses, Fighter and Coastal Command Losses around that date; you might find him in one of the lists of airmen lost.
Thanks for that, I have been there but cannot rely on the initial, rank or date left by the vicar! Will look again for more clues. D
Hi D I have searched 'Military' at Ancestry and came up empty - have you checked local newspapers at the dates of death?? TD
Whereabouts in Liverpool? Not many N Kennedys who died in 1939, your best bet looks like this chap: Name: Nicholas Kennedy Birth Date: abt 1887 Date of Registration: Sep 1939 Age at Death: 52 Registration district: Bootle Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 279 Buried at Ford Cemetery, plot AB201. Cemetery registers give his address as 207 Derby Road, though. Forget that, he was buried on 27 September, more than two months after your date of death.
Hello and welcome, E.O. Formby. Radio Officer MN. I can see no one by that name recorded in the DAS Index or Register for 1941. The only other Formby recorded for 1939-1945 is also not a match. As with any other major database there are mistakes and omissions but I would suggest if his name is recorded correctly he did not die at sea. Of course any further details on this man would help to pin him down. The other avenue to go down would be to check his CRS 10 (Service record from Jan 1941), if it has survived. This file would be held at the National Archives, Kew. Regards Hugh
Paul: the district is Aigburth. I cannot rely on the date of death left in the record, which must be wrong if we are dealing with war deaths. Hugh: thanks for the welcome. There are so many flaws in the list (which I started researching over ten years ago) that I am now clutching at straws in the hope of clearing up the last few problem names. Yesterday I found that a man recorded by the vicar as 'L/A, RAF' with no date of death was almost certainly spelled wrongly, but was a trooper in the Royal Armoured Corps who happened to attend a crashed RAF bomber as a firefighter and was among the victims when it blew up. A Leading Aircraftman with a completely different surname was another of the victims... Chinese whispers, I think. I will pursue the CRS 10 option. Ainslie
Ainslie, Re E.O. Formby MN. (CRS 10) I have posted this on another site just for completeness. As he is supposed to have died in February 1941, I have to say it is a very long shot indeed. These files were started from January 1941 so I would say it is only worth a look if nothing else to cross it off your list (but you never know). Anyway the file you would need to look at would be BT 382/598 - Formby E to Forsey W G. -http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C10988823 Regards Hugh
Daggers, The only Cook (e) I could find from Liverpool who died 1943 was Ronald William Cooke , 2886678 Royal Fusiliers ,he died in Italy . However his address was Aintree not Aigburth and his parents were Herbert and Maude Good Luck Gill
I am prepared to believe that the wartime vicar was doing his best, and recorded on trust what information he was given, with no attempt at verification. I am not suggesting that informants told deliberate lies, but we know that people can muddle and misremember names and other details, especially if the deceased was someone "down the road" about whom they had heard rather than they actually knew. Another possibility is that one or two might have been victims of local bombing, effectively killed as civilians, but someone thought that their military status should be recorded. With regard to Kennedy, putatively killed in July 1939, two months before the British declaration of war, it would be odd for the vicar not to have noticed the discrepancy. So, whilst necessarily for the moment still allowing the possibility of date error, I wonder whether he might be someone who had (1) volunteered in advance of the war, or (2) been recalled from reserve in advance; or (3) called up to the militia under the Military Training Act 1939, and was killed in some training accident, and the death was deemed attributable to the war, albeit in advance.
Perhaps I should not lay all the blame on the vicar; his list was typed into printed loose-leaf pages, so maybe someone else pressed wrong keys. Nevertheless the list was riddled with typos or incomplete data. Given all that, I still aim to make as complete a record as I can and will keep picking at it as more material comes to light. 1939? I cannot believe that one! Many thanks for all help. Ainslie
Ainslie well done and keep going. Your case unfortunately is not unusual.I would add I have taken hundreds of photos of memorials in the UK and many have names that do not register with CWGC.Who knows when the mistakes crept in. regards Clive
