Walter J Ferrand, 31/12/1943, Merchant Navy, non-CWGC

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by temptage, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. temptage

    temptage Who said this would be easy?

    I have been doing research on a local RoH and have come up with the name of W(alter) J Ferrand who died 31/12/1943 being a crew member on the SS Port Wellington. He is not on the CWGC database under any variation of his name or ship or date of death.

    I have found that the ship was stopped, captured and sunk on 30/11/1940 in the Indian Ocean.

    On another website (here) a relative of another crew member states that his father was taken as a POW to Marlag und Milag Nord after the crew was captured. On the CWGC website there are 3 of the crew who died within the following month, quite possibly at sea while being transported back to Germany, who are all named on Tower Hill Memorial.

    Arthur Forde Haslam died on the 30th November 1940

    Emrys Oliver Thomas died on 2nd December 1940

    Charles Kronberg dies on 26th December 1940

    but most interesting is the 4th one

    Albert William Hart died on 14th May 1943 while he was a POW, and is now buried in Becklingen War Cemetery, having been moved from a temporary burial site at Westertimke, near to the POW camp.

    So that accounts for 4 members of the crew, all of who were Merchant Navy men.

    On Ancestry, which I don't have a subscription to, it shows this regarding Walter Ferrand. Clearly stating that he died in 1943 and was a Merchant seaman. Could it be that he was a POW at the time?

    I would appreciate it if someone might look up the full details that are hidden below, to see what else we can find out about him, and where he may well be buried.

    Screenshot(4).png
    I would hesitate to say at this stage that he may be a possibility for the In From The Cold team to get their mitts into.

    Now, back to my original question. Should this topic remain here, or should I move it to the POW thread, or to the 'Possible Non-Commemorated'
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953
    Name: Walter J Ferrand
    Age: 25
    Birth Date: abt 1918
    Birth Place: Cleethorpes, England
    Death Date: 31 Dec 1943
    Death Place: At Sea
    45947_0028-01751.jpg

    TD
     
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953
    Name: WILLIAM Albert W. Hart
    Age: 37
    Birth Date: abt 1906
    Birth Place: Sydney, Australia
    Death Date: 14 May 1943
    Death Place: Milag Nora
    Spouse: Edith Elizabeth Louise
    45947_0010-00513.jpg

    TD
     
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  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Good work by TD.

    Bottom right hand corner has an annotation to the effect “not to be recorded on ROH” - Roll of Honour - so may that explain non commemoration by CWGC?

    Steve
     
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  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just for completeness:

    UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953

    Name: Arthur Forde Haslam
    Age: 40
    Birth Date: abt 1900
    Birth Place: Stockport, England
    Death Date: 30 Nov 1940
    Death Place: At Sea
    45947_0010-00703.jpg


    Name: Emrys Oliver Thomas
    Age: 52
    Birth Date: abt 1888
    Birth Place: Caetnarvon, Wales
    Death Date: 2 Dec 1940
    Interesting he has 2 cards
    45947_0022-01471.jpg 45947_0022-01473.jpg


    Name: Charles Kronberg
    Age: 69
    Birth Date: abt 1871
    Birth Place: Riga, Latvia
    Death Date: 26 Dec 1940
    Death Place: South Altantie
    45947_0013-00381.jpg

    TD
     
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  6. temptage

    temptage Who said this would be easy?

    There must be an error somewhere on his card as he couldn't have been on the Port Wellington when he died on the last day of 1943 as the ship had been sunk 3 years prior.
    If that was his ship then he would have been a POW.
    Why would he be denied inclusion on RoH if he drowned?

    That form provides more questions than answers
     
  7. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Do we have a typo here? Post refers to Port Wellington but ship on Death Record is Fort Wellington.

    Tim
     
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  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    From the record cards the Official Number for

    Hart, Haslam, Thomas & Kronberg is 147589

    for Ferrand it is 168498

    this could mean he was not on the same ship, especially when you read that all from SS Port Wellington were rescued save 1

    Port Wellington was carrying 4,400 tons of frozen meat, butter, eggs, and cheese and 1,750 tons of steel, 1,200 tons of wheat. She had a crew of 82 and seven passengers. 81 of the crewmen including the wounded captain (who would later die from his injuries aboard Pinguin) and the seven passengers, all of whom were women, were picked up by Pinguin. Port Wellington was then scuttled.
    German auxiliary cruiser Pinguin - Wikipedia

    Maybe timuk has something there. I would suggest contacting member Hugh McLean - the MN master

    TD
     
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  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

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  10. temptage

    temptage Who said this would be easy?

    Good spot Tim. I've just looked at the original handwritten RoH and there's a chance it could possibly say "Fort" but my money would still be on "Port" after comparing it to other entries.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Would you like a better thread title ?
     
  12. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Death Record definitely says Fort Wellington and is backed up by TD's check on the ships' Official Numbers.
    My guess looking at the Record 'Missing, at Sea' amended to 'supposed drowned' is that he went missing and it was then assumed he went over the side. That would explain the 'Not to be included in RoH (Roll of Honour)' as death was not due to enemy action.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  13. temptage

    temptage Who said this would be easy?

    Feel free Owen
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    To what ...?
     
  15. temptage

    temptage Who said this would be easy?

    Sorry I thought you was offering to change it to a more apt title.
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I was but you need to tell me what it should be.
     
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Thats my guess to Tim, especially when you recall his date of death - 31 Dec 1943 - New Years Eve - wonder if it was an alcohol induced accident.
    I also guess someone was not focussed when they initially wrote out his card, but someone else (red ink man) noted the errors and declined his addition to the RoH.

    TD
     
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  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Have edited title and moved to War at Sea.
    Should attract help and possible explanations for MN non-commemoration.

    If you have enough after to apply for CWGC listing, then the thread could be moved to Non-Comm.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  19. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Could be TD. I have also noted that the Record Card shows an annotation 'FA', which I take to mean Fatal Accident crossed out. The 'Not' in 'Not to be included in RoH' is also heavily emphasised. I think there is more to this than meets the eye.

    Tim

    Edit:
    On 31/12/43 Fort Wellington was sailing independently from Rio de Janeiro to Freetown.
    (Source convoyweb.org.uk)
     
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  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Panel from Tower Hill Memorial.

    upload_2018-11-6_23-9-41.png
     

    Attached Files:

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