Wagner and Nazism

I am not exactly sure where this topic should be place, but here seems most appropriate. Any thoughts on Wagner's anti-semitic views, how Nazis loved his music, or just comments on his music?

 

Well music for me [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGU1P6lBW6Q[/YOUTUBE]

 

or just comments on his music?
horrendous. You did ask.

 

Ehhhh, I happen to like it

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Great idea for a thread, let's see where this takes us Richard died in 1883, 50 years before the III Reich. However his descendants were sympathetic enough.

Winifred Wagner


An interesting website. Another one.

AH at one Bayreuth Festival.

 

Wagner and Hitler were "peas in a pod" as regards German anti semitism and Hitler was also a lover of Wagners music. He used to attend the ten days of the Bayreuth Festival each year and for the rest of his life,yearned for for "his festival".As Hitler stated "whoever wants to understand National Socialist Germany must know Wagner"."What joy each of Wagner's works has given me" declared Hitler in late January 1942 as the first indication was received of setbacks on the Russian Front".Wagner was one of the great inspirations of Hitler's life.Apparently he was on christian name terms with the Wagner family and declared he loved them all but there is slight evidence that Seigfried,Richard's son, may have not been fully to his liking,possibly because he was married to the woman who adored him.Without doubt,Winifred was a dominant women.

Richard Wagner for his part,had a fanatical hatred for the Jews, who he was convinced were out to dominate money and politics and saw that Germany with its special gifts would become the ruler of the world.Wagner had to leave Germany in 1848 due to political upheavals and carried a certain level of financial distress in his exile in Switzerland,England,Italy and France over twelve years.

Richard Wagner however died in 1883 and to look at the tie,you will have to look at his son,Siegfried and his English born wife,Winifred who was more German than English and was the driving force in the holding of the Bayreuth Festivals.Winifred ensured that the strong association with Hitler was maintained by having Hitler as a frequent visitor to the Wagner family home,Haus Wahnfried.Hitler, in turn, records that he loved to visit Haus Wahnfried and the family.The attraction was obviously mutual.

Winifred was attracted to Hitler and on becoming a widow, there were strong rumours that Hitler would marry her.But of course Hitler projected to the German public that he was married to Germany and had little time for a female companion.Perhaps he could not handle a dominant woman.

The Wagner tie with Hitler has caused problems for the Wagner family and I would say that the association with Hitler and the Third Reich has left a stain on the Wagner family to the present day.

 

Never a lover of Wagner's music and the only time I ever enjoyed a programme from the Beyreuth Festival was at the re-opening in 1951 when the mainworks was Beethoven's Ninth - with Elisabeth Schwarztkopf -Hongen- Hopf -Edelman conducted by Furtwangler - truly a classic performance played as even Beethoven would agree !
Furtwangler left all other conducters trying to catch up......

I note that the grandchildren are still fighting each other to direct everything - shades of Winnifred !
Cheers

 

Ehhhh, I happen to like it


I had a very bad experience at The Sydney Opera House

I'd rather the nazis like Wagner rather than Bach, I would not wish such pleasure on them.

 

Oh, that's natural if you go for the entire 'Rheingold' at one sitting, better take a book. Several books, rather! And a large enough coffee thermos

Now Bach is another topic entirely.

 

Ehhhh, I happen to like it

[YOUTUBE]NoHiFOSAxa4[/YOUTUBE]

Great idea for a thread, let's see where this takes us Richard died in 1883, 50 years before the III Reich. However his descendants were sympathetic enough.

Winifred Wagner
View attachment 34651

An interesting website. Another one.

AH at one Bayreuth Festival.
View attachment 34652

I love Tannhauser. And the overture, ahhhhhhhhhh.....

 

But that the guy was a right bastard there is no doubt left

From a Jewish colleague of his...

[YOUTUBE]

Is this forum grand or what?

 

It's funny how Wagner still attacked Mendelssohn for his Jewish roots even though he converted to Lutheranism.

Yes, got to love the clarinet solo from Hebrides...

 

Za-
at school - we had a music teacher who just loved Mendelsohnn and played the Hebrides -ALL the time - interspersed with Schumann's Kinderscenen - we got so fed up with it that we would hum along with the cave - with our own words of "Thank God when it's over ....." da da de se da da.....

Cheers

 

wtd51
think I know what you mean at the Sydney Opera House - we lined up to pay $24.00 for the tour to be told that we couln't see the main hall as there was a rehearsal on at the time- thought it was stange that a large complex didn't have a rehearsal hall so we backed off and went on the Harbour Tour - to be locked in the dock area as we missed the last boat ! That was a fun day !
Cheers

 

My first introduction to Wagner

 

In one of my rare fantasies. I am a spectatator in Hitler's bunker on April 30th 1945.

As Hitler and Eva Braun's corpses are drenched in petrol and set on fire by his obedient henchmen, one can hear Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" roaring away in the background.

What a fitting end this would have been for this megalomaniac to have himself "played out" by his notoriously antisemitic idol and composer.

Back in the year 2010 I find myself unable to distance the music from the man and for this reason alone I cannot stand the stuff.

Ron

 

Ron, I think he was sent off with the accompaniment of several 21-gun 152 and 203mm salvos. That's fitting enough for me.

 

From a Jewish colleague of his...


A genius!
Now that was a better trip than the opera house, in a twin engine motor launch and yes I did have the overture in my head.

Is this forum grand or what?
Yep.

 

RON GOLDSTEIN "one can hear Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" roaring away in the background". I chose it on the grounds that if its good enough for the Parachute Regiment its good enough for me

 

I read long ago that Radio Berlin transmitted Wagner's "Gotterdammerung " during the final hours of the battle for Berlin. Twilight of the Gods was a bit over the top I thought.
I find Wagner a bit heavy myself but fits well with Germany and Gothic of that time. Not being a music critic off any standing I will leave well alone.
Anti Semitism was common throughout Europe and Great Britain amongst certain groups of people at that time because of their success in Business and Finance. And it still exist. It is now driven underground because of laws prohibiting Anti Semitism but the cancer is still there driven by paranoia and envy and pops up in conspiracy theories. Never Again.

 

I had a very bad experience at The Sydney Opera House

I'd rather the nazis like Wagner rather than Bach, I would not wish such pleasure on them.
TOM. (I think you wanted this post and im WTID45)
wtd51
think I know what you mean at the Sydney Opera House - we lined up to pay $24.00 for the tour to be told that we couln't see the main hall as there was a rehearsal on at the time- thought it was stange that a large complex didn't have a rehearsal hall so we backed off and went on the Harbour Tour - to be locked in the dock area as we missed the last boat ! That was a fun day !
Cheers