Hello! I picked these up at a local dis-used WW2 firing range. What are the 3 rounds on the left please? Am I right in guessing they are a type of blank especialy for a certain magazine, say, a bren gun? The next one is what I`d call a normal blank and the last 3 are normal ball cases. I just noticed one of the long nosed blanks is still live! Hope the cop shop is open. Cheers.
Is this any use? The 3 on the left are the longnosed cases, the single one is the normal blank and the other 2 are ball cases. The 3rd ball case was unreadable.
My poor old eyes aint what the used to be, but it looks like the 3 on the left still have the rounds in place. The 4 on the right have been discharged or "fired" as the round casings or "jackets" appear to be the same length as the 3 on the right, but withought the rounds.
Sorry Hugh, the part that looks like a round is an extension to the case, it overlaps the outside of the neck and does not go in the neck like a bullet. I`ll try an get clearer pics. Thanks Brit, all I need to do now is get conformation it is a blank.
Tam the pictures are probably ok, I was not joking about eyesight, I really do need new glasses mate.
Not sure about grenade launcher ' Ballastite Blanks' the casing would have - I am sure been of higher proofed design and material, with a bi-coloured brass casing. Old enough to have used this (TP - target practice - chalk nosed) 7.62mm (SLR) Ballastite blank. Had to set the gas regulator to zero. butt tucked under armpit right hand on pistol grip with a turning inward twist of the wrist, the left hand firmly holding the fore stock/hand guard firmly, left leg forward right leg as anchor and fire, now I am a big Woodentop and it would lift my front leg off the deck. My last one was through a gaping window - one of the cottages at Imber Salisbury plain, from aboout 50 metres. (75 about max) The 94E (Energa) A beast!
I am afraid you are all well off with the time frame of these. The extended case blanks are the "Cartridge, S.A.,Blank .303 inch with Mock Bullet Mark VI" and were introduced in December 1901 to give better feeding in the magazine rifle than the previous short blanks. The "mock bullet" is a thin brass ferule crimped over a normal rosette crimped blank. Unfortunately there were a number of accidents caused either by the mock bullet actually firing from the barrel or getting stuck in the barrel (which when followed by a live round was not a good idea). The Royal Navy ordered the mock bullets removed in 1906 and the army followed in 1907. They then became (rather logically) the "Cartridge, S.A.,Blank .303 inch with Mock Bullet Removed Mark VI". After that production reverted to the previous short Mark V blank which stayed in service until after WW2. The other blanks you have may be either Mark V or Mark VI with the mock bullet removed. The Mark VI originally had a blackened case for identification and although I cannot read the headstamp in the photograph, I would expect it to be either "R^L C II" if made from Mark II ball or "R^L C VI" if from Mark VI ball. Of course they may be by other manufacturers. Post the actual headstamps and I will identify them for you. As mentioned previously, blanks up to 1 inch in calibre are not subject to the requirements of the Firearms Act. Tab - there were no extended grenade discharger blanks in British service. I can post pictures of how they looked originally if required. Regards TonyE
Whilst on the subject of grenade discharger blanks I thought it worth posting these. Picture 1, left to right: "Ctg. Blank, Short Rifle, Grenade Mark I", 1915 for early rodded No.3 grenades "Ctg, Rifle Grenade H Mark I" for Mills grenade from the cup discharger As above, but New Zealand manufacture with purple lacquer instead of case blackening "Ctg, Rifle Grenade H Mark II" for rodded Mills grenade and later, Naval Line Thrower. Picture 2: "Ctg. Rifle Grenade H Mark IV" WW2 for No.85 grenade from Rifle No.5. As above but Australian production for the No.85 Grenade from SMLE/No.4 Rifle. "Ctg., Rifle Grenade H Mark 7z" early manufacture by FN for Energa No.94 grenade. As Above, but later manufacture with case staining. The H Mark III was as the H Mark I but cordite loaded for tropical issue, and the H Mark V was a tropical version of the H.IV. As there was also another Carbine H Mark V for AFV Smoke Dischargers the Mark VI was omitted and the next type was the H.7z. Confusing, isn't it? I have also truncated the full nomenclature of the cartridges and of course the actual titles were often changed over the years. BTW, the cases were normal .303 cases and were not strengthened in any way. Regards TonyE
Thanks Tony, very interesting. The headstamps are R ^ L 11 C , B 11 C and KN V1 C. I believe the firing range was used during WW1 as well.
Cases were made from: "R^L II C" - Cordite Ball Mark II by Royal Laboratory, Woolwich "B II C" - Cordite Ball Mark II by Birmingham Metals and Munitions Co. "KN VI C" - Cordite Ball Mark VI by Kings Norton Metals Co. Although the Blank Mark VI was considered obsolescent by WWI, considerable numbers appear to have been used. Regards TonyE
So these rounds were manufactured 100 years ago? Have they been in the sand all that time? Or could have they been issued in 1940 as nothing else was available? All the other cases are dated 1939 to 1943 and some are in a worse state than these long blanks.
Just a comment from a thick infantryman - in my time (the swansong of the 303 Bren) the Bren blank was a bulletted blank with a wooden bullet and used with a special barrel which had a blocking plate welded across about 3/4 of the flash hider, The theory was that the blocking plate would disintegrate the wooden bullet and only a few splinters would emerge. The safety distance was greater than for ordinary blank, but most sensible people avoided the thing like the plague. I would add that the flame emerging from the muzzle at night was hugely impressive! Chris
Chrisgrove- yes wooden bulleted stained blue, as I have said, had dealings with cadet units. I am not sure if they were allowed to use this form of blank but I did see the odd blank round.
