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Uniform identification?

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by Helena Wojtczak, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Hi folks. I am trying to confirm that this chap (1948) is wearing the uniform of the King's Troop Royal Horse Artillery.

    What he's wearing (you can just about make it out) does not match the uniforms I have seen online. Most obviously, the loop thingy is on the right but in all online photos it is worn to the left.

    However, he was supposedly a bombardier in the KT.

    Can anyone comment on the uniform please?

    Thanks

    Helena
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    No stripes on arm so not a Bombardier.
    Can see a 'flaming bomb' by his hand so could be RA.

    Chain Mail epaulettes make me think Cavalry / Yeomanry.
     
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  3. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Loopy thingies are worn as a sign of rank in the Household Cavalry. On the right for officers and on the left for NCOs in full dress and No1 dress. Stripes are not worn.

    Does this apply to Kings Troop? Probably.

    Mike
     
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  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

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  5. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Trux: "[Loops] On the right for officers and on the left for NCOs in full dress and No1 dress."

    Another person suggested that the photo must have been mirrored because the loop thing would have been on the left. What do you think?

    Yes his name was Ronald Henry Anderson Dean. b1921 d2018. M 1948.
     
  6. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    My knowledge of wedding photos is limited but the bride is on the correct, traditional side.

    Mike
     
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  7. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Having 'slept on it', and used such reference material as I have, I offer the following.

    The uniform is the normal No 1 Dress (Blues). These are rarely seen. When re introduced after WW2 (who knows the date?) they were only for NCOs, Warrant Officers and Officers. For ceremonial duties a striped girdle was worn but the plain blue cloth belt is correct for a wedding.

    The shoulder chains were worn by mounted troops in No 1 Dress. Originally they were to protect the shoulders from sword cuts. Dragoon Guards, Dragoons, Hussars and Lancers certainly all wore them. Did the Horse Artillery?

    The loopy things are not the aiguilettes indicating rank but caplines. These were originally worn by Hussars, Lancers and Horse Artillery to prevent the headwear from being lost. On No 1 Dress they serve no practical purpose but are regimental distinctions.

    Kings Troop have their own cap badge but wear the artillery grenade on the collar of No 1 Dress.

    Cavalry had white or yellow strips on the trousers. Artillery had red. None are visible in the photo so not white or yellow.

    I have not found any illustrations or dress regulation for Horse Artillery, and Kings Troop, No1 Dress.

    As Sherlock Holmes said 'when you have iliminated the impossible whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth'. So probably RHA/Kings Troop. Why no rank stripes?

    Mike
     
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  8. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Thank you so much Trux!

    So you don't think the photo was mirrored?

    OK I have now found his obituary .... reference is made to his army career... your thoughts, please?

    "He served in World War ll in the Royal Horse Artillery. Later to join the Riding Troop and was present when King George Vl ordered it to be changed to the KINGS TROOP. He rode in many Ceremonial Occasions including Royal Salutes and Musical drives at Royal Tournaments where he was a lead driver."

    The wedding was 1948.
     
  9. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Everything about the photo is consistent with what I would expect for RHA and I cannot identify it as belonging to any other mounted unit. However I have never seen RHA No1 Dress so cannot be 100% certain.

    I have seen the Kings Troop many times over the years but always either in full dress or in the No2 Dress, Brown, uniform worn for practices.

    The photo seems to be the right way round. I also recall that although No1 Dress, Blues, were only 'issued' to NCOs and above it was possible for others to borrow them. I have been to two weddings where borrowed or rented blues have been worn. The same is true today of officers swords. The regiment keeps a stock which may be borrowed. Officers are no longer required to own one.

    I think you have reached the limits of my knowledge now.

    Mike
     
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  10. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Thank you very much, Mike. In your opinion was this man an officer? Guess at rank? Cheers.
     
  11. Trux

    Trux 21 AG Patron

    Not an officer. You mention the rank of bombardier. This is an NCO rank but he may not have been promoted to that rank in 1948.

    Here is a team in full dress with lead driver leading. This one is a girl.

    lead driver RHA.jpg

    Mike
     
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  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  13. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    So he's probably a lancer then? Shame the obit did not mention his rank. I suppose he was a low rank and so maybe it was thought better not to mention it whereas if he was an officer they would have made sure they did?

    I noticed myself when googling for images that many of the King's Troop are women. They aren't girls, though.
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    No because we can see the flaming bomb in the photo as mentioned earlier.
    That will be on the front of his headwear (be it cap of beret I dunno) that he will be holding his hand.

    bomb.JPG ubique.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  15. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Aha. So what rank was he?
     
  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Or, perhaps once someone has left the Services their rank, whatever it was, matters very little compared to the fact that they once saw service and in a particular unit. (There are many ex-forces on this forum. I might know their former unit, but only know the rank of half a dozen or so, and most of those would be WW2 veterans who were sharing their experiences to benefit the forum. My father was a WW2 veteran; he made Corporal at least twice and only referenced that because of loss of pay/the "drunken arsehole of a sergeant" who once put him up on a charge.)


    Copy service records would would confirm rank, regiment/unit, courses, medals.
    See link below for details on what's available depending on consent of NOK, etc:
    Request records of deceased service personnel
     
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  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Haven't a clue as the quality of the photo is bloomin' awful so lots of small details are not visable.
     
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  18. Helena Wojtczak

    Helena Wojtczak Historian, author

    Ok. Sadly its just a scan from a paper so I can't do anything.
     

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