Thanks for that, Rich, an interesting read indeed over on the GWF - particularly the seemingly-coincident 1951 embargo on state-assisted US repatriations. On that score, I'd already searched the ABMC's database but not a single Gramiak apparently in there. If, as Neville says, his man joined the PAF - later to retreat to fight from Blighty of course - he probably did so off his own bat, out of loyalty to the beleagured 'land of his fathers', contrary to early US 'ostrich' policy. So technically not, therefore, a US serviceman, I suspect his family would not have benefited from the same repatriation deals enjoyed by the families of GIs etc.
I would also hazard the guess that there must also be a UK paper trail. IF his wife agreed to his body being exhumed and taken back to USA or Canada or wherever, then presumably the local registration office/cemetery etc would need official documentation, signed and dated etc to allow the exhumation to occur, and an idea just off the wall, some local undertaker who may still be in business would have been there to provide a means of transporting the remains. Exhumations are i would think not that common and it may well be that someone, in the 'trade' remembers it. Some investigation I know but may provide more clues/answers. Just thinking aloud really TD
You're doing good detective work, so I'm not trying to butt in... It seems to me that Grzegorz Gramiak wasn't in the PAF but must have enlisted through Canada from wherever he was in the US or Canada. He didn't enlist in the US as they hadn't been brought into the War yet. He seems to only have been married for about 3 months before being killed. After the War, US citizens were able to have their dead repatriated and Grzegorz may have been returned by the Canadian or US authorities (as all being Allies etc). The US branch of the family may have believed the Polish/Ukranian members to have been wiped out by either the Germans or the Russians, certainly there would have been no opportunity for contact until long after WW2 when the Cold War finally thawed and the Iron Curtain came down.... That's possibly the explanation, Mary having remarried may not have wanted the reminder of his death to upset her new married life and felt for him to be with his US relatives to be the best option. Now the survivors of the Polish side want to know where he is but it may be that it is too long ago to be certain of what actually happened. I somehow feel that he is back in the US with his relatives nearby. RIP Grzegorz wherever you are. :plflag[1]: :patriot[1]:
Hello, He looks to have been (re)buried with Technical Sergeant 12093762 Victor J Gramiak in 1950 images ©Fold3 Rgds Pete
Hello Pete, That is outstanding! I would imagine that they are brothers as they were re-buried in the same grave. Thank you Neville
Great work Pete, Neville, Looks like Victor died on 22 Jan 1945 with the 358th BS flying B-17s. Three of his fellow crew members are remain buried in the Netherlands so he may have been exhumed from there after the war and sent home as was Grzegorz. There are also photos of him, check out: http://www.303rdbg.com/358woodson.html There are other sites mentioning Victor as well, just type his name into Google. Sad that a family lost two of it's sons. Simon
Thanks Simon, I had thought Victor was a soldier, but I forgot that the American Air Force was part of the army in those days. It is interesting to see a face after all the research. I am still trying to get a photo of Grzegorz because he was in 304 Squadron and that is my speciality. Neville
Neville, One final thought, since we know where Grzegorz and Victor are buried you may be able to have a photo of the grave taken. Look up the local Veterans Affairs details, every town of any size in the US has one. I am sure they would be very willing to help. I made contact with the family of a 102 Squadron Pilot in the US using the local Veterans Affairs Office. Good luck, Simon
The grave is listed on findagrave.com but without a photo, I've put a request on it and it says there are lots of people local to it so I think it will get added soon, once it does I'll post it on here. Cheers Alistair
Hello Simon, That is certainly worth a try and it is another string to the bow. The sad thing is that I have been trying to write a mini-biography of "George" for my own 304 Squadron site and I can find out a lot about his death but very little about his life
Hello Alistair, What am I doing wrong? The only one I could find on Findagrave was his sister! Nevertheless, if you can find a photo, I would love a copy. Many thanks for your contribution
The American equivalent of the CWGC appears to have placed a stone on the grave. The grave reference is Plot No 66 A 205 1B and that appears to be the end of my quest to have his grave properly marked. Now, the real hard work begins! I have, with a lot of help on this forum and elsewhere, found out just about all there is to know about his death and burial. Now I have to find out about his life and service history. Thanks to everyone who has helped me
Following Alistair's success, I contacted a photographer in New Jersey and she tells me that she has had several requests recently (via Findagrave)and she will be taking a photograph in the next week or so. So we may end up with a glut of photographs. To emphasise this, yesterday there was a request for a photograph of Viktor J Gramiak's grave (his brother) which they have received from Poland.
Well I wish you luck, writing your mini biography, knowing what the heck to call people who seem to have changed their names at the drop of a hat ! First there's your subject - Gregory in the 1910 census and George thereafter (except when he enlisted). Then there's Victor who, if he was George's brother, the censuses only had as Charles (1930) & Carl (1940). I'd initially assumed he was named after his mum (Wiktoria/Victoria PROKOPOWICZ) but can't substantiate it - possibly simply because the census didn't catch him age 0 as it did George when he was still known as Gregory. I've also a sneaking suspicion the (Piotr/Peter) 'P' mysteriously-dropped from George's name might have stood for Pawel/Paul in accordance with normal patronymic convention but can't remember if that's a Polish tradition like ours. Yes, I finally managed to crack the census nut by searching for Paul/Victoria pairings ... only to find their surname always mis-spelt in such a way that even Ancestry's search engine couldn't spot the similarity ! as here (with relevant images extracted, for convenience, from such fat monolithic whole-reel Internet Archive PDF volumes as are freely available): 1920 - GRANIK (FamilySearch transcript) (Internet Archive reel 1035 image) View attachment 1920-02-13 - census - GRAMIK - 393 East Kinney St, Newark, NJ, USA.pdf 1930 - GRANIAK (FamilySearch transcript) (Internet Archive reel 1338 image) View attachment 1930-04-08 - census - GRAMIAK - 369 East Kinney St, Newark, NJ, USA.pdf 1940 - GRAMISK (FamilySearch transcript) Have fun, Steve
Hello Steve, Well that has certainly given me something to think about - and something to work on! A contact in Blackpool has visited the Layton Cemetery today and will send me the details of the exhumation that are there so that will be taking up a bit of my time in the next few days. Lots more research to do! Thanks Neville
I see p11 of the (24.2MB PDF) Missing Air Crew Report, just linked by Finn here on RAF Commands, gives Victor's NoK as ... ... to maybe allow an address cross-check and prove her the same as George's. The trouble is that I've yet to find the family more than once at any given address ... NB: Not all that useful but FWIW - Person Details for Victor J Gramiak, "United States World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946" — FamilySearch.org Steve
Hello Steve, I have to disagree with you! All information is useful! It is just a matter of waiting until that little bit of useless, or not very useful, piece of information might become the key detail that completes the jigsaw. I have lived in my present home for 28 years, prior to that we never stayed in the same place for very long. That is just a little quirk of human nature. The information is potentially very useful. With the differences in names, I am not going to let a difference in addresses put me off. I am grateful for the information you have given me and it is my job to check it out! Thanks again Neville
Neville, Apologies, I am afraid I let you down yesterday as I was unable to get to Layton cemetery when the Friends were open. I will definitely make it on Monday. Simon
I totally agree with you Neville - we're maybe having what's tongue-in-cheekily known as a 'serious agreement' if only you knew it. I merely played down the usefulness of my last link merely for it not referring to his family and therefore likely to disappoint instant gratification junkies - I'm a regular 'squirrel' myself and have, for instance, assembled a lot of contradictory stuff about Paul not yet relevant unless we get to suspecting confusion between multiple so-named candidates. As for family mobility, I completely understand the need for breadwinners to chase job opportunities whilst at the mercy of landlords - the agricultural labourers who figure so strongly in most of our family trees faced exactly the same predicament over a wider area naturally dictated by the size of farms requiring seasonal workers. I don't yet know why a presumably-skilled foundry worker should have been reduced, for example, to janitorial work but all that really matters now is that it makes our jigsaw puzzle that much harder for containing so many more smaller pieces. And I'm well-used to name games but generally of the more usual type juggling between a well-established choice of officially-registered given names and variations upon them - a seemingly-inordinate number of my family having opted for a middle name in preference to their first and one in particular going so far as to officially register all his many patents with his given names thus transposed. But this apparently-illogical adoption of seemingly-random ungiven names is blowing my mind in the taxing light of the Genealogical Proof Standard. I strongly-suspect it's a Catholic thing beyond my ken as coming from non-conformist/CofE stock. "Fret ye not", Steve
Hello Steve, I completely understand your point (also being C of E) but even so my mothers name was Doreen and she had no middle name but was always known as Betty! Nevertheless, it would be boring if it was easy! I now have most of his death story now I need to find his life story. The information you gave me suggests his father emigrated to the USA in about 1911. I need to find out if he enlisted in Canada or came straight to England. I know he was married in July or August 1942 in Burnley - which is not a million miles from the Blackpool Depot and I also know that he only joined 304 Squadron about 9 days before he was killed in a training accident, So where was he before that? An OTU maybe? The Wellington came down for reasons unknown but somewhere there must be details of the crash and rescue attempts or recovery attempts. The bodies of three of the crew were picked up the same day two others were picked up (separately) over the next three weeks but he was not found for over nine weeks. Somebody must know some detail and there must be some official record of events. So that is my next task! Regards Neville
