Apologies if I'm duplicating here, I had a bit of a search and couldn't find any similar threads. A recent find in my WW2 Portsmouth dead research has got me thinking. Out of almost 1,000 Portsmouth servicemen I have researched, Private Robert Johns is the first I have found who was in the Army and under 18 when he was killed. Not only was he 16, but he was also serving with the 13th Battalion of the Parachute Regiment in Normandy. How common was the phenomenon of underage Soldiers in 1939-1945? I've always had the impression that it was a lot rarer than in 1914-18, due to national registration and the difficulty of falsifying your age. My research would suggest that it was rarer. I know that the Royal Navy had Boys Sailors, and the Royal Marines Boy Buglers - both of whom could be under 18.
With regards to WW1, my Grandfather (Fathers father) enlisted underage and survived the war, but suffered from lung damage due to being gassed. This caused his premature death at the age of 42 in 1942. Here is a grave headstone at Berlin CWGC on Heer Strasse. It is that of a very young Gurkha soldier also aged 16. He must have joined at 14 or 15 years of age. Regards Tom
The R.A.S.C. also had members that were underage for action. They enlisted and were sent to Jersey for training. Until recent years there was an R.A.S.C."Jersey Boys" Association. The late Joe Gutteridge was the Secretary.
James, one of your portsmouth boys Private ROBERT EDWARD JOHNS 14434704, 13th (2/4th Bn. The South Lancashire Regt.) Bn., Parachute Regiment, A.A.C. who died age 16 on 23 July 1944 Son of William Henry and Daisy Nellie Johns, of Stamshaw, Portsmouth. Remembered with honour RANVILLE WAR CEMETERY
Hi Phil, Pivate Johns is the chap who sparked my interest in this topic. I'm going to have a look at the electoral roll/street directories to see where the Johns family lived - I spent the first 4 years of my life in Stamshaw. I might be able to find out what school he went to as well.
James, one of your portsmouth boys Private ROBERT EDWARD JOHNS 14434704, 13th (2/4th Bn. The South Lancashire Regt.) Bn., Parachute Regiment, A.A.C. who died age 16 on 23 July 1944 Son of William Henry and Daisy Nellie Johns, of Stamshaw, Portsmouth. Remembered with honour RANVILLE WAR CEMETERY James, as Johns is on mt South Lamcs ROH, I have a few details for him Among those who paid the ultimate price for the regiment was Paratrooper Robert Edward John, who was just 16 years old when he died in Normandy with the 6th Airborne Division. He had lied about his age and joined the Army as a 14-year-old. Aged 16 at time of death. Belived to be a member of the Battalion Anti Tank Platoon, killed in action when hit by a sniper.
Thanks for that Phil. He must have been a big 14 year old indeed to enlist and then hack it in the Paras. Were the South Lancs one of the Battalions that was converted? Hopefully I can find out more about him, I would be very surprised if theres not some information about him out there somewhere, there might have been a story in the local news at some point over the years.
Thanks for that Phil. He must have been a big 14 year old indeed to enlist and then hack it in the Paras. Were the South Lancs one of the Battalions that was converted? Hopefully I can find out more about him, I would be very surprised if theres not some information about him out there somewhere, there might have been a story in the local news at some point over the years. Yes it was james, converted in June 1943, although I dont believe that he served with the Bn prior to it being converted. Phil
its difficult to tell as he has a General Service Corps Army number, which I believe was introduced in September 1943?
James, finnaly put the bottle down, got my senses back, and my act together, and wrote up my rough Note, so here is all I have on Private Robert Edward Johns. The Son of William Henry and Daisy Nellie Johns (Nee Searle), of Stamshaw, Portsmouth, Robert Edward Johns was born between Jul and Sept 1927, on the Isle of White. One of at least 4 brothers (William H Johns, born Jan – Mar 1917; Ronald A Johns – Born Jul – Sept 1920; Ivor T Johns – Born Apr – Jun 1930). Lying about his true age, Robert E Johns volunteers, enlisted at the age of 14 and joined the parachute Regiment, posted to the 13th (2/4th South Lancashire) Battalion, were he served with A Company. Pte Robert Johns, from Portsmouth, was shot dead as A Company, 13 Parachute Battalion, part of the 6th Airborne Division, defended Le Mesnil crossroads. "The brigade was at the forefront of the main effort to prevent a German counter-attack," Major David Reynolds said. Major Jack Watson, the A company commander, said that Johns was 14 when he joined the regiment. "He was quite a big lad when he did his training and it was only when he died that we found out he had lied about his age," he added. The Battalion War Diary for the day states the following: 23rd July 1944 Place: Le Mesnil The enemy was very sensitive all day and fired on the least provocation. 'C' Coy were unfortunate in sustaining a number of cas from enemy mortar fire, as a result of very accurate fire from 50mm and 81mm mortars on their forward positions. Two cas were also caused by a troublesome enemy sniper. See attached SITREP giving full details. 0800 - 2000 hrs. 23 July 1944. The only engagement of our one-company front has been a fire fight commencing at 1000 hrs. At this time one of our snipers, working forward, presumably exploded a booby trap at 144725. He was not seen after the explosion. At 1140 hrs an O.R. of the A.Tk Pl was shot dead by a sniper from the area 146725. In retaliation we attacked his posn with mors and PIATs at 1400 hrs. Casualties for 23 July 44 Other Ranks: Killed - 1. Wounded - 5. Missing - 1. The Army Roll of Honour For Pte. Johns states the following: Name: Robert Johns Given Initials: R E Rank: Private Death Date: 23 Jul 1944 Number: 14434704 Birth Place: Portsmouth Residence: Portsmouth Branch at Enlistment: Army Air Corps Theatre of War: Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45 Regiment at Death: Parachute Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment (Prince of Wales' Volunteers)) Branch at Death: Army Air Corps
cheers for that Phil. Hopefully I can find out more about Private Johns locally. I'll of course let you know if I do.
James One of my old work mates was a boy soilder in the RE's he was under 18 and therefore unable to sail for France in 1939 with his company much to his disgust, but he and 2 mates managed to get sent out as reinforcements in early 1940. His brother aged 16 joined up and fought as an infantryman in 1943 not sure which regiment though. Oldman
I've got a feeling my great-grandfather probably lied about his age to join the Navy in 1914, the age and DOB he gave on his service record and the age on his marriage certificate are about 2 or 3 years different. I'm not surprised really, as far as I can tell he was from a large, Irish family in Birkenhead, father dies, eldest son goes to join the Navy.
James, finnaly put the bottle down, got my senses back, and my act together, and wrote up my rough Note, so here is all I have on Private Robert Edward Johns. The Son of William Henry and Daisy Nellie Johns (Nee Searle), of Stamshaw, Portsmouth, Robert Edward Johns was born between Jul and Sept 1927, on the Isle of White. One of at least 4 brothers (William H Johns, born Jan – Mar 1917; Ronald A Johns – Born Jul – Sept 1920; Ivor T Johns – Born Apr – Jun 1930). Lying about his true age, Robert E Johns volunteers, enlisted at the age of 14 and joined the parachute Regiment, posted to the 13th (2/4th South Lancashire) Battalion, were he served with A Company. Pte Robert Johns, from Portsmouth, was shot dead as A Company, 13 Parachute Battalion, part of the 6th Airborne Division, defended Le Mesnil crossroads. "The brigade was at the forefront of the main effort to prevent a German counter-attack," Major David Reynolds said. Major Jack Watson, the A company commander, said that Johns was 14 when he joined the regiment. "He was quite a big lad when he did his training and it was only when he died that we found out he had lied about his age," he added. The Battalion War Diary for the day states the following: 23rd July 1944 Place: Le Mesnil The enemy was very sensitive all day and fired on the least provocation. 'C' Coy were unfortunate in sustaining a number of cas from enemy mortar fire, as a result of very accurate fire from 50mm and 81mm mortars on their forward positions. Two cas were also caused by a troublesome enemy sniper. See attached SITREP giving full details. 0800 - 2000 hrs. 23 July 1944. The only engagement of our one-company front has been a fire fight commencing at 1000 hrs. At this time one of our snipers, working forward, presumably exploded a booby trap at 144725. He was not seen after the explosion. At 1140 hrs an O.R. of the A.Tk Pl was shot dead by a sniper from the area 146725. In retaliation we attacked his posn with mors and PIATs at 1400 hrs. Casualties for 23 July 44 Other Ranks: Killed - 1. Wounded - 5. Missing - 1. The Army Roll of Honour For Pte. Johns states the following: Name: Robert Johns Given Initials: R E Rank: Private Death Date: 23 Jul 1944 Number: 14434704 Birth Place: Portsmouth Residence: Portsmouth Branch at Enlistment: Army Air Corps Theatre of War: Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45 Regiment at Death: Parachute Regiment (South Lancashire Regiment (Prince of Wales' Volunteers)) Branch at Death: Army Air Corps Some additional info from the Airborne Assualt Museum. He passed his jump course in January 1944, with the comments 'Youngest pupil on course, but best performer' . Robert E Johns | ParaData
