Uncle George's POW journey

Hello again all,
I recently found out that grandad's uncle George Dudley was captured at Krombeke(?) on the 30th May 1940. His service records state that he was wounded and had been missing since the 15th, whilst his POW card states he was captured at "Crombak" as does his POW questionnaire. From some preliminary research I found that there was a CCS at Krombeke that apparently housed "700 injured" that could not leave. AFAIK George just barely missed the transport to Dunkirk, and was captured with the rest of the people left at the CCS. He was first sent to Stalag VI/A, and was sent to a few more camps including Lamsdorf, Beuthen and Posen before he was repatriated. Family story goes that he tried to escape once, was caught and then tortured & buried alive. Terrible. His wife fainted when he appeared at the door as she had assumed him dead. He also (according to the questionnaire) apparently sabotaged a railway at Posen in 1942.
I'd love to know more about his service and what/where he had actually been when in captivity. He was in 2 North Staffordshire Regiment. I don't quite understand the POW records.

I'll attach exerpts of everything I've spoken of. POW number = 37113
Thanks )

 

crimtaa,

There are maybe fifteen references to Krombeke here id'd by using the forum's simple, one word search option (top right corner).

Posen was a German city (from 1793), which became Polish territory after WW2 and was demolished in the battle to take it. It is now known as Poznan. See: Poznań - Wikipedia

Do you have his British Service Record? As you know we always recommend applying for that.

Unable to locate a TNA record, using his full name and DoB 15/10/1910. That could indicate his record is still with the MoD or is with TNA for processing. If you apply you will need his Date of Death - with an official document.

Looking at the photos he has two numbers: on a German record (with photo) 645459 and elsewhere on British sheets 504459. neither number is shown on CMP as South Staffs, they are cavalry regiment numbers: Dragoons & Hussars.

The 1st photo (German POW Card) shows 2 N.S. i.e. North Staffordshire; they were in France:

From: North Staffordshire Regiment - Wikipedia

Using an online search with: "2nd battalion" + "North Staffordshire" site:ww2talk.com id'd a small number of threads, at a glance some refer to France 1940, in particular their War Diaries.

A second search with: "2nd battalion" + "North Staffordshire" + "France" site:ww2talk.com reduced the number.

Others focus on POW history, hopefully they will be along to help.

 

yes, I have his Service Record, thankfully before the charges came in. It is quite long as his service goes back to 1930. Thank you for the pointers, I'll have a read now

 

I may have sent this before.

The two reference sites for abbreviations I use regularly are: WW2 Abbreviations and Acronyms | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers and Abbreviations in Service Records (UK/ Army/ WWII) : For ref.

What is his Service Number?

Good luck.

 

Thanks for sharing the documents.

There are several German speaking members on the forum including Lindele and @Itdan who may be able to translate the German documents.

The 2 sided POW ID/Movements forms record both Stalag and Work Camp movements/locations. You are lucky to get this as well as his photo. It doesn’t look like a British Army greatcoat to me? Perhaps Belgian?

The various cards are from the German POW central index and repeat his Stalag movements - one commenced at each new Stalag or medical facility he passed through - and were used to communicate updates to Swiss Red Cross who in turn notified UK authorities.

You ought to apply to Swiss Red Cross next January for copies of information in their files via this link -

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

They should give you an English language account of the dates of his Stalag movements (not work camps) as recorded in German on the cards. You may be lucky and get the Capture Card postcard POW completed on arrival at their first camp.

Steve

 

Hi,

I can interpret some of the entries on the forms - mostly those endorsed by stamp as German script defeats my O Level German of 50+ years ago plus they are not the “sharpest” images.

Looking at the rear of the 2 sided large POW form it doesn’t show which hospitals he passed through before arriving at Stalag VIA in August 1940. He left there for Strassburg (could be Strasbourg although it’s along distance from Hemer) in October 1940 before moving on to Stalag VIB in December 1940.

https://muse.jhu.edu/document/4699

Stalag VI-B - Wikipedia

In March 1941 he moves to Stalag XXI and a few weeks later he moves to the satellite camp/sub camp Stalag XXI CZ -

https://muse.jhu.edu/document/4741

In October 1941 he is sent to Stalag XXI D -

Stalag XXI-D - Wikipedia

In June 1944 he is moved to Stalag 344 (Stalag VIII D) at Teschen

Stalag VIII-D - Wikipedia

In August 1944 he is moved to Stalag VIIIB at Lamsdorf

Stalag VIII-B - Wikipedia

In mid October he returns to Stalag 344 for a few days before being moved to Stalag VIIIB for the final time. From the papers you’ve posted it appears he was likely there when the camp was evacuated in January 1945 to avoid the advancing Russian Army at the commencement of The Long March.

The bottom of the form lists the Work Camps he was at -

I can’t make out the first 2 handwritten entries.

The first stamp is dated November 1941 from his time at Stalag XXID and is shown as Fort VIII. Fort VIII (Fort Grolman) was also used to house British and French prisoners.; The fort still stands, located to the south of Stadion Miejski, home to Lech Poznań football club. 52°23′42″N 16°51′25.2″E

The next stamp shows that in April 1943 he is sent to an Arbeits Kommando (Work Camp/Detail) in Litzmannstadt - the German name given to the Polish city of Lodz where there was a large Jewish Ghetto.

He left there in April 1944 for Arbeits Kommando 17 at Gornau which may be the sports stadium in Poznan shown in this link -

Edmund Szyc Stadium - Sports stadium in Wilda district, Poznań, Poland

The final 2 entries are from 1944 -

E727 in Miechowice (Mechtal), present-day district of Bytom - 346 POWs at a power station

E761 in Bobrek, present-day district of Bytom

The first of the smaller cards posted appears to be a master card used to record details of his 1940/41 POW movements. hopefully Lindele may be able to translate the script at the bottom of the card. His army service number is mis recorded on this card.

I would appear that he was originally in Stalag VB Villingen before being sent on to Stalag VIB

https://muse.jhu.edu/document/469

The other 4 cards posted above appear to relate to his movements in 1944. I suspect these forms were used to communicate his movements from the camp to the central index Office so that Swiss Red Cross could be updated from there.

The first card appears to show he was sent from Stalag 344 to Stalag VIIIB in July 1944.

The second card reflects his move from Stalag VIIIB back to Stalag 344 in early October 1944.

The third card predates the first 2 posted cards and shows his June 1944 move from Stalag XXID at Posen to Stalag 344.

The final card shows his mid November 1944 move from Stalag 344 to Stalag VIIIB.

The extract from his statement of services form appears to have been completed retrospectively as it shows him in Stalag VIIIB in 1940.

Steve