Trying to track the movements of my Great Grandad FEPOW

Chris, The file you want would be WO344/363/1 at the National Archives. I just found this reference using this very useful guide from Lee Richards' website here:
POW Liberation Questionnaires - www.arcre.com

I do not know whether Cofepow have completed their task of posting the front sheets of liberation questionnaires, but other members here may know them better.

I have photographed many LQ's from the series: they are not easy to read sometimes.

But there are other 5th Suffolk records at Kew.

A hospital record from WO 347 can be just as useful as an LQ. My interest is in my uncle who did not survive to complete an LQ but when WO347 was opened at Kew in 2015 I was able to read his index sheet and find where he was during two brief periods in hospital between June 1942 and his death in September 1944 and see the original records kept in Thailand. The records often have home addresses etc. and details of "working" battalions.

It is a case of "fingers crossed."

I have traced many 18th division Suffolk regiment men because of my interest in the Hofuku Maru and have seen the records held at the Suffolk Record Office at Bury St. Edmunds, but it is some time ago now.

See this thread: Hofuku Maru

 

Chris,

Just checked a different computer and I've got the LQ. I certainly don't have them all but I photographed the whole file. referred to back in 2018. But I only photograph the completed parts of forms, so if the man says "No" to escape attempts or puts a line through I don't bother. It is hard to photo a complete form with a vest pocket camera. I always photograph the other side of the forms, where completed.

John

 

Thank you John. This is more than I hoped for!

 

Good to know he completed one, going by the COFEPOW I assumed he didn't

 

I have done a fair bit of research on the Bukit Timah party leaving Singapore 17/10/1942. This party was led by Lt Col Baker of the 5th Suffolk's and comprised mainly of 4th and 5th Suffolk's and 64 Beds and Herts. When they arrived at Ban Pong half the work party, mainly 5th Suffolk's, were distributed into Group 1 and the rest into Group 2. The party in Group 1 remained under Lt Col Baker and they worked in the area of Bhatona, 173 Km on the railway, before moving further up the line beyond Tha Khanun, will need to check but think at Kroeng Krai or Konkiota.
There are plenty of books written by 5th Suffolk's and material at the archives at Bury St Edmund's which may help fill in more gaps.

 

Thanks Martyn, I thought the date rang a bell. The places mentioned are towards the border with Burma at Three Pagoda Pass. Hospital records may be a bit thinner up there.

 

Chris, Pleased to be of assistance. Fepow researchers are a bit strange and from diverse backgrounds. Another chap who knows a lot about the Hofuku Maru is a Professor of Biology working in Texas. It must be quite hard for you to take all this in but let us know if we are not explaining anything as well as we might. I've never been further east than Crete but Martyn is always going off into the jungle !

John

 

I have done a fair bit of research on the train leaving Singapore 17/10/142. This working party comprised of 650 men, 4th and 5th Suffolk's, 64 Beds and Herts, under Command of Lt Col Baker of the 5th Suffolk's. This party as split into two when it arrived at Ban Pong Thailand. The 5th Suffolk's under Baker were distributed into Group 1 and were then sent into Group 4 at Bhatona, 173, Km on the railway. After their work was complete there they went on further up county around Kroeng Krai, or at Konkoita(will need to check exactly).
If he was sick, he may appear in WO347 (Tha Sao A&D), but most likely Kinsaiyok, which are not available!

There are plenty of books written by the 5th Suffolk's and diaries at the Bury St Edmund archive that may help fill in gaps.

As for LQ's, not everyone filled one out and some are missing.

So your best lead is to follow the path of the 5th Suffolk's in Group 1 under Lt Col Baker.

 

Posted twice because I edited the map and got lost in technology!!

 

Thank you for the map, its brilliant. And for the information, quite a few leads to follow now.

 

Hi Chris - can confirm from hospital records WO347-3, that Private Arthur Bailey was in Nong Pladuk hospital suffering malaria October and December 1943.





It would be good to locate him in an upcountry hospital which would confirm he was with Lt Col Bakers work party, as some Group 1 men never progressed past Ban Pong and remained at Nong Pladuk. Lt Col Baker was essentially at the camps, Ban Pong, Chungkai, Ban Khao, Bhatona, Konkiota and back to Nong Pladuk. The 5th Suffolk's in Group 2 are listed in the hospital records as in No. 4 Railway Battalion.They were probably all with Col Baker until after the completion of the railway when they would have gone back to their respective Group HQ.

Did check the A&D register for Nakhon Pathom, but no entry for him there.

Its always a shame when a Liberation Questionnaire is not completely filled out, but there are other ways to trace an individuals footsteps on the railway.

Good luck

Martyn.

 

Thank you again! Amazing what you can find. Better to do some deeper reading to get to a better understanding so I look into these areas.

Best wishes

Chris

 

Whilst I entirely agree that usually obtaining Service Records is the way to go this is not the way to discover anything about time spent as a FEPOW. In these cases the Service Record will show little if anything about the time as a POW - at best it will show the Casualty Report listing and maybe the date of arrival back in UK following repatriation. For those wishing to investigate a FEPOW further it is necessary first to try and find the Liberation Questionnaire (free on the COFEPOW site) although not all have yet been listed, which will show the Camps the serviceman was in. One then has to go onto one of the pay sites such as Find My Past or Fold 3 and look at the Japanese Index Cards, Missing Personnel Files, Party Files etc. in the WO 345/361Series. The only alternative is to make a personal visit to the National Archives.
For those incacerated in Japan I would look at Allied POWS in Japan , a free site which has a lot of info on the Japanese Camps and the liberation rosters.
It is also worth looking at the enormous amount of info contained in Home

Tim

 

Good to see that he did have a Liberation Q. All I have is his entry on the master POW listing WO392/23:

 

The records of the Japanese Prisoner of War Information Bureau ( JPWIB ) were taken over by Americans. The ideal person to have seen them would have been Captain David Nelson of " The Story of Changi" fame but he returned to his pre-war job as a surveyor in Singapore. "The Story of Changi" is about record keeping in adversity, a book published shortly before his death by a gem of a man. We owe him and his colleagues in the Bureau of Record and Enquiry a huge debt.

Long narratives about the JPWIB records and their return to the Japanese in the 1950's can be found from the excellent Mansell website ( see "Allied POWs in Japan" in post 33 above.) The Australians also investigated the Japanese PWIB and its numerous failures.

Introductions and guides to records held at the National Archives in America are very extensive and available on a pdf. Some of these original records have appeared on the Mansell website. Bearing in mind that a lot of information was copied by Xerox copies and many carbon copies a document created in the UK but not at Kew can sometimes be found to be downloaded from Australian Archives.

Many affidavits by British POWs held in Japan are in American archives, but are not downloadable. Some appear on the Mansell website.

Records at Kew ( British National Archives ) are in various series and have filtered out from about 2008 onwards. WO361 is the main series but it confuses BRE records ( see David Nelson's adversity records ) and British records. The British did not shine at chasing for information or pursuing leads, I am sorry to say, and co-ordination with the Judge Advocate General and Adjutant General was sorely lacking.

The vast majority of Judge Advocate General files investigating war crimes have not emerged at Kew. Ones that have sometimes been given new covers and large numbers of documents removed. WO 356 file cards indicate who gave statements on files which have not appeared.

To return to the topic affidavits by the Lt Col Baker can be found on war crimes files. He swore at least five affidavits in March 1946 and I think I have seen two.

However, evidence in person by Japanese defendants opting to take the stand ( not obligatory ) and by their colleagues can be very much more informative than British evidence because they can describe the administrative arrangements involved in the railway and the constant shifting of camps. On the whole the British Military Tribunals just let them natter away, giving them the opportunity to criticise the POWs.

Finally, we always have to remember that all the POWs who worked on the railway said that the local inhabitants used by the Japanese had a much worse time of it and very few records survive concerning the fate of about 100,000 persons believed to have lost their lives building the railway.

 

Thank you for this background, very well explained.

 

Just for info relevant docs ;-


Kyle

 

I have found these two records linked to my Great Grandad.

A J Bailey POW camps?

Anyone have knowledge of Camp Malia 4? I have found it was referred to as Adams Road camp but there isn't much info on it. Was this somewhere would have been held until transferred to Thailand.

The other record refers to a 4D Camp in Thailand, could this be the No. 4 Railway Battalion?

Chris

 

Thank you so much

 

Any idea what the letters mean in the last column of the second and third image? Arthur John has a Y on one and this is crossed out and replaced with a 1 on another?

Best wishes

Chris