Trinity Sherman

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Following on from recent chat on the 'drivel' thread I was pottering through here; Trinity Remembered and noticed this quote:
    Immediately after the test a Sherman M-4 tank, equipped with its own air supply, and lined with two inches of lead went out to explore the site. The lead lining added 12 tons to the tank's weight, but was necessary to protect its occupants from the radiation levels at ground zero. The tank's passengers found that the 100 foot steel tower had virtually disappeared, with only the metal and concrete stumps of its four legs remaining. Surrounding ground zero was a crater almost 2,400 feet across and about ten feet deep in places. Desert sand around the tower had been fused by the intense heat of the blast into a jade colored glass, now known as Trinitite.

    Found this:
    trinitysherman.jpg
    From Trinity site,
    and was just wondering if anyone's got any more pictures or details of this most unusual vehicle? Even what colour it was?

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  2. Glamorgan

    Glamorgan Member

    its a bit wired that it is lead lined but it looks like the first anti rad tank
     
  3. Andy in West Oz

    Andy in West Oz Senior Member

    Not that weird since lead protects against radiation.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I see they've added 'painted white' to the text.
    I'd still be very interested to see any more pictures or information relating this M4 if anyone stumbles across any.
     
  5. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

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  6. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I wonder if - in the circumstances - they had wet CREW stowage? :lol:
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Nice one Bod - sadly too late for a bid.
    Found a little more here explaining the apparent presence of Rocket Launchers on the rear deck:

    With Enrico Fermi at Columbia, Chicago, and Los Alamos

    Following the Trinity test in July 1945, one wanted to collect soil samples from the crater a few hours after the explosion. The samples were to be analyzed by the radiochemists to obtain the ratio of the fission products to the unreacted fissionable material. From this one got a value for the yield of the explosion. The Anderson-Nagle-Tabin method was to use a Sherman tank to go into the crater, to dig up samples thru a hole in the bottom of the tank. The tank bottom and personnel compartments were lined with lead.

    Julius Tabin, Anderson, and I took turns going into the crater, and of course there was a driver. It was dangerous because if the tank stalled, there was no escape; we would have cooked. Our luck held, we got our samples, and the tank didn't stall, but we all got significant doses of radiation.

    Fermi's method was simple, practical, and safer. He had George Weil fit out a second Sherman tank with rockets that were to be fired into the crater and retrieved with cables attached to the rockets. As it turned out, the second tank stalled some distance away from where it was supposed to be, and the cables got scrambled up. The experiment failed, but nobody got hurt.

    More from FAS, with a couple more pictures here:
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/00326999.pdf (pdf)
    Grainy view, but showing the rockets apparently loaded:
    trinity.jpg

    Tracks showing how close the tank/tanks went to the Trinity crater:
    tracks.jpg

    And again from FAS, an original document on ground activity post trinity with a brief mention of "a special Sherman tank described in LA-356":

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/lib-www/la-pubs/00191451.pdf

    It'd be nice to see that document - wonder if it's available somewhere...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  8. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Another clear shot

    [​IMG]

    I have not found the Pathe film from which this still is taken from though.
     
  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Nice one!
    I have not found the Pathe film from which this still is taken from though.
    Somewhat to my surprise, I've got it mate:
    WORLD NEWS IN REVIEW - British Pathe 00:48+

    Brief, but a bit more detail.
    There may well be a more substantial report on there... somewhere.
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    06:40 Weasels in a similar role:
     
  11. kiwigeordie

    kiwigeordie Senior Member

    HMAS Sydney II - lost with all hands and waiting to be found

    Andy. Nothing to do with this post and I don't mean to hijack but hasn't HMAS Sydney been found?

    Perhaps the mods can move this if it interferes with this thread.
    Pete
     
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  13. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    A recent bulletin board conversation on vehicles used at the Maralinga bombsite threw up a snippet on a modified M3 Grant (the only photo of it in captivity found so far is attached)

    Doesn’t really help this thread, but of interest nonetheless……


    *********************************************************************

    I believe this is the vehicle that is currently in the Museum at Keswick Barracks. Painted a lovely white colour.

    *********************************************************************

    I recall many years ago that 3/9 SAMR had an M3 Medium Tank (Grant) that had the mantlet removed from the turret & the opening covered with bullet proof glass and also the side sponson was given the same treatment. This vehicle was supposedly crewed by scientists to advance to ground zero after the detonation.

    I wonder if that vehicle is still around & if those stories were true
     

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  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    That's fascinating, Dave.
    I somewhat daftly hadn't thought of other sites. Makes me wonder if these sorts of vehicles were ubiquitous (or are still... hmmm).
    (Also makes me wonder if somebody runs a Geiger Counter over that White M3 every now and then.)

    Still sketchy info here and there isn't it. Anyone would think the writers & photographers present were more interested in the bomb tests than old tanks...
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Adam,

    When I read dave's post I also wondered about the Radiation Levels and whether it glowed in the dark!

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Well...................

    The thread on my work BB that ended up with the info on the M3 Grant actually started with a discussion on a well-known (in Australia at least) Centurion tank.

    This particular example was number 169041 and after it's use at the bomb sites (at the detonation site, during detonation) was cleaned up and returned to the Armoured Corps - where it soldiered on with service in Vietnam until being returned to Australia.

    Following the disposal of the Centurion fleet it now resides on display at the edge of the parade ground in Darwin.


    I don't have access to what was discussed on my work BB now that I'm at home, but typing CENTURION MARALINGA into Google gets one close to it all pretty quick.



    http://www.raeme.info/ops.php?op=armd&item=3 (Atomic Tank)
     
  17. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    This site http://www.kcl.ac.uk/lhcma/pro/p-wo320.htm lists TNA files that in turn identify most of the UK vehicles brought over for involvement in the testing program in Australia.

    WO320/1 1956

    British atomic trials, Maralinga, Australia; photographs of Operation BUFFALO, A vehicles, Centurion tank Mk3 and Daimler Scout Car Mk2.


    WO320/2 1956

    British atomic trials, Maralinga, Australia; photographs of Operation BUFFALO, B vehicles, Bedford RLB 3 ton GS 4X4 truck, Rover 1/4 ton GS FFW 4x4 Mk3 truck and 7.62mm FN rifle.


    WO320/3 1957

    British atomic trials, Maralinga, Australia; photographs of Operation ANTLER, targets before and after firings.





    The attached photos from an NAA file aren't that great, being photocopies of copies that have then been scanned, but they do show some of the vehicles mentioned in those files.
     

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  18. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Aha - more and better photos of the M3 Grant are available via here:

    http://www.aussiemodeller.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5028


    So far all of my searches through Aussie archives have failed to find any photos of it from way back then.
     
  19. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Dave,

    Looking at one of the links above it was alarming to read about the recovery by soldiers without any knowledge of Radiation and no protective gear.

    It seems to be the norm for the time - a total disregard of safety for those taking part!

    [​IMG]
    10.. The tank on the Rogers Brothers M9 trailer after its recovery back to the Long Range Weapons Establishment base at Woomera. Note the extra tyres tied to the tank: the result of a number of blow-outs on the overloaded trailer.
    One of the recovery crew later observed that they were told to place the tank in isolation well away from the buildings, yet had not been briefed about any radiation hazard prior to the recovery, or been provided with any special protective equipment.


    Regards
    Tom
     
  20. 2a9

    2a9 Junior Member

    Gentlemen,thanks for the topic I am tracking for years.
    Here is a portion of the " Life " so it should be clear who was climbing the tank.
    Mr. Laurence popular books on the item were very interesting for beginers like me in schooltime.
    Al.
     

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