Transvaal Scottish POW

Discussion in 'South African' started by Tracy Muller, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Hi - I am trying to find out if anybody has any information on my father Stanley Hubert Morris, born 18 April 1924. He was part of the Transvaal Scottish (not sure which battalion) and was captured in Tobruk. I am not sure if he was a POW in Italy or Germany. Sadly my Dad would not talk about the war, with the exception of a few funny things. My brother had a book which I think was from the Transvaal Scottish with pictures of all the troops etc, and this had all his papers in it. The book has been lost, and I do not have anything on my Dad.

    His nicknames in the army were "Shorty Morris" and Cheeky Seargent Major.

    I would like to find out more and would be grateful for any assistance that anybody could offer.

    Thanks in Advance

    Tracy Muller
     
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi Tracy, the best thing to do would be to get a hold of a copy of your Dad's service record. It costs £30 to obtain the record from Glasgow and if your unlucky you could wait up to a year to receive it (due to the volume of requests). Mind you, a friend of mine applied for his Dad's records in April and he just received copies last week.

    Hopefully the link below will take you to the website with the forms that you will need to submit. If either your father or mother are still alive the records would cost nothing to obtain. But if you are applying as next of kin you will likely have to send the death certificate along with your forms and cheque.

    https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

    This is definitely not my area, but I believe some POW filled out prisoner release forms that I believe are held at Kew in London. Maybe some other forum member can give you a bit more guidance than I can on this subject.

    Best of luck with your research. - Maria
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    South African service records are NOT in Glasgow.
    They are in SOUTH AFRICA.

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty-details/amending-records/documentary-evidence/to-obtain-a-service-record.aspx

    SOUTH AFRICA
    All South African Service Records:
    Any request for information on South African Military Personnel from 1910 up to the present day should be addressed to
    Documentation Centre
    SA National Defence Force
    Private Bag X289
    PRETORIA 0001
    SOUTH AFRICA
    Tel: (27) 12 322 6350 Fax: (27) 12 322 5613
    E-mail: sandfdoc@mweb.co.za
     
  4. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Tracy,

    I have this on my list for tomorrow at Kew to see if he did complete a Liberation Questionnaire but l must confess that not all Army guys completed one and l have had a recent stretch of bad luck with South African's but fingers crossed.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  5. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Thank you so much for all your help and suggestions. I am very grateful. Holding thumbs that your stretch of bad luck with turn to good luck Nick.
     
  6. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Tracy,

    There is a document held at our National Archives with the file reference WO392/21, it contains information about all Allied POW's in Italian hands as of August 1943. It contains lists of South African prisoners.

    This document is known to have errors, so you must bear this in mind. However, there is a Pte. S.H. Morris within the lists (see attachment) who is listed as being held at Camp 47, which was at Modena. If this is your father then it also shows his Army number which will be very useful when searching for his records at Pretoria.

    I hope this information will help.

    Steve

    Morris SH..jpg Camps copy 2.JPG
     
  7. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Thank you very much for the information - its a great start. I have just emailed pretoria with this info, so hopefully I can get some information.
    This is a great forum!
     
  8. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Tracy,

    Not been a good day today and continuation of the bad luck so nothing found for Stanley Hubert Morris. Please get hold of his service record and come back to me to see if we can find any more info.

    On return from POW camps, each nationality, a few linked together, were sent to different places for debrief, medical checks and repatriation. Obviously where Stan went, they were not too bothered with the Liberation Questionnaire.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  9. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Thank you very much for your help Nick - it is appreciated
     
  10. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Guys,

    Tracy now has Stanley Morris's service record as attached but l have not been able to find a copy of his Liberation Questionnaire.

    My quick analysis of the information is as follows but l would welcome your input:-

    Embarked Durban on board Mauritania on 8/6/41 for Middle East, Supply Company 2 Transvaal Scottish. Arrived Suez 20/6/41.

    Reported missing 20/6/42, captured Libya. Any idea what was occurring?

    Confirmed POW 26/6/42. Campo 59 26/9/42 then Campo 47 11/1/43, arrived back in UK 16/5/45.

    RTU is Repatriation Training Unit where he went after a long period as a POW to retrain him to civilian life and trades.

    No reference that l can see to German camps but others may be able to help here.

    Any help that you could give Tracy would be great.

    Regards,

    Nick
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    I Just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone on this forum, and especially Nick for all your help. I was young when my Dad passed away and never got the opportunity to ask the questions I now seek answers to, so I am so very very grateful that I have been able to find so much information already. My mother and I are astounded at the information we have been able to get in such a short time and are touched by everybody's kindness, and if anybody is able to fill in the few gaps it would be appreciated.
     
    Rich Payne likes this.
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    QUOTE:Reported missing 20/6/42, captured Libya. Any idea what was occurring?

    Not really my area of interest but found this about POW camps here
    http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?pid=S0018-229X2011000200006&script=sci_arttext

    This from wiki
    In North Africa the 2nd Transvaal Scottish, together with two battalions consisting of members of the South African Police, served in the 6th South African Infantry Brigade. They assisted in the construction of the famous "Alamein Box". 6th South African Infantry Brigade attacked the fortified town of Sollum on 11 January 1942 as part of Operation Battleaxe and went on to fight in the battles of Bardia, Acroma Keep and Gazala. At Bardia, Sollum and Halfaya both German and Italian troops were forced to surrender to the Brigade. The majority of the battalion, along with the entire South African 2nd Division, was captured when the "fortress" of Tobruk fell at the end of the Battle of Gazala.[1]
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Having a look at Ancestry POW's in Germany - the only S H Morris (South African Land Forces) I can find is:

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945 about S H Morris
    Name: S H Morris
    Rank: Pte
    Army Number: 32381
    POW Number: 28758
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: 8B
    Camp Location: Teschen, Czech Republic
    Section: South African Land Forces : Officers and Other Ranks

    This shows him as a Private, I note that Tracy says he was a Sgt M - but that may have been after WW2 that he was promoted - hope this is your man, but more research will be required

    TD

    edited to add:
    As he was born in 1924, then when he was captured in 1942 he would be just 18, so probably was still a Private.
     
    4jonboy and NickFenton like this.
  14. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    TD,

    That's our man, same army number.

    That's great, thanks Richard.

    Does anyone know the likely route these guys took through Germany?

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  15. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Thank you Richard - thats my Dad. He was not a Sgt M - but because he was cheeky they nicknamed him that. I had found the Name Morris listed under the camp (http://www.lamsdorf.com/help-with-research.html) a while back, but was not sure if it was him, and you have kindly confirmed it for me. You guys are absolutely amazing, and I am eternally grateful!


    Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you - and may God Bless each and every one of you!
     
  16. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Just a small point. His service records give date of birth 18/4/1922 rather than 1924. He would otherwise have only been 16 on enlistment.
     
  17. Tracy Muller

    Tracy Muller Member

    Well spotted Rich - the bugger lied! 16 is so young! Very very scary
     
  18. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Great to see how far you have come in such a short space of time Tracy. :)
     
  19. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Guys,

    So we know he was captured at the fall of Tabruk. Any files to check out?

    We also know Stalag 8B. Do not think they were involved in the marches but where did they go or come from?

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    http://www.lamsdorf.com/history.html

    THE LONG MARCH (OR DEATH MARCH)

    In January 1945, as the Soviet armies resumed their offensive and advanced into Germany, many of the prisoners were marched westward in groups of 200 to 300 in the so-called Death March. Many of them died from the bitter cold and exhaustion. The lucky ones got far enough to the west to be liberated by the American army. The unlucky ones got "liberated" by the Soviets, who instead of turning them over quickly to the western allies, held them as virtual hostages for several more months. Many of them were finally repatriated towards the end of 1945 though the port of Odessa on the Black Sea.


    It is hard to say whether he was picked up by the Allies advancing East or the Russians advancing West (and then possibly to Odessa for repatriation by sea) - I am still hunting down the lists of POW's that were repatriated via Odessa via the National Archives and also through Moscow Archives -- no luck yet I'm afraid.

    TD
     

Share This Page