'Too Many *Nice Nazi* Films Being Made' ?

Well done Kate .

 

Absolutely. This is a film that I plan to see. I have received favourable opinions about it from people I trust when it comes to movies so will try and catch it. I believe the speech was quite good too. No incoherant babbling or blubbing!

 

Drgslyr

You say:
If someone adheres to that way of thinking then why weren't the Jews who worked in the concentration camps - sorting baggage, applying a trade or disposing of bodies - condemned as well? They were aware of the evil around them but continued to serve the Nazis to save themselves. The concentration camps would not have been operable without the assistance of the Jews.



With very few exceptions, once someone had been sent to a concentration camp his or her life was virtually forfeit and like any other human being faced with that situation, they automatically looked to prolong their life in the desperate hope that they would be eventually released from their purgatory.

To suggest that they should be condemned for their actions is complete and utter madness.

 

Just to add to Ron's comments when they couldn't work anymore (not just Jews) through ill health, exhaustion etc they were put inline to suffer the same fate as the majority and replaced with healthier workers.

Drgslyr, I think its called survival of the fitness and like Rons says they can not be blamed. 99% of the human race in my opinion would do the same thing if they were in their shoes. Infact I've seen it in the 90's and 00's on a far smaller scale. Anyway I know I would do it if I thought I had a chance of surviving.

Also worth considering: I believe I'm correct in saying that a lot of the people that worked in slave labour sabotaged a lot of what they did. Whether it was manufacturing war machines, ammunition or other Nazi projects that were devised to help win the war like V weapons.

Cheers
Andy

 

dbf

You say
I just read the above post in its full context, and I hope there is a slight misunderstanding of what was being said. I do not see any criticism here of those who worked in the camps.

The comment made by Drgslyr to which I had earler objected was:
why weren't the Jews who worked in the concentration camps - sorting baggage, applying a trade or disposing of bodies - condemned as well?

If this is not a criticism then I honestly don't know what is

I would also respectfully point out that I made a point of not confining my remarks to Jewish prisoners when I said:
With very few exceptions, once someone had been sent to a concentration camp his or her life was virtually forfeit and like any other human being faced with that situation, they automatically looked to prolong their life in the desperate hope that they would be eventually released from their purgatory
. as I am all to aware that it was not only Jews who were slaughtered in the camps.

Like yourself I look forward to any clarification by Drgslyr

Ron

ps

I note that Adam also cannot find anything wrong with the posting.

Is it just me ?

Bemused of Cockfosters

 

I've seen The Reader and, contrary to The Times article linked in the OP, the did not come away from it with much sympathy for Kate Winslet's character, Hanna Schmitz. She has a secret that she won't reveal and which, if known, might have acted as a mitigating factor in her sentence. I knew what it was when I saw the film and it didn't diminish my enjoyment of it, but I'll not reveal it in case others feel differently

By concealing the secret, she can't explain why she'd left a job with Siemens where she'd been offered a promotion and become a concentration camp guard. Keeping the secret also requires her to falsely claim full responsibility for the writing of a damning report: this means that she takes the full blame for a crime and 5 other guards are convicted of lesser offences when, in fact, all are guilty.

However, the fact remains that she is a Holocaust perpetrator and thus deserves her punishment. The impact of her refusal to reveal her secret is that the others get less of a sentence than they deserve, not that she gets more.

The key point of the film for me was late on, when her former lover, Michael, visited a Holocaust survivor.

Kate Winslet deserves all the awards she's earned for this part but that doesn't mean that I feel much sympathy for the character that she played.

 

The concentration camps would not have been operable without the assistance of the Jews. ...

I think the vast majority of Germans were - albiet quietly - opposed to the inhumanities that they are now condemned for actively propagating through inaction.
With respect, how do you end up believing this sort of topsy-turvy stuff? It's a bit like saying that had there been no Jews to gas there wouldn't have been any death camps.

Next, do you have any supporting evidence to assert that 'the vast majority of Germans' opposed these inhumanities? I never heard a single SS or Wehrmach soldier do so or express any sympathy for Jews, although I saw and heard many. Nor did I hear any German civilian express any sympathy when I was in the BAOR in 1948.

I think you are confusing German society in the 1930s and early 1940s with the German democratic society of today. You should not assume that because neo-Nazis are a tiny minority in today's Germany and Austria that such must have been the case in the past. Just as hindsight can mislead, so can anachronism.

 

Lads and ladies , May I interject for a moment and ask people to draw breath and not jump to any conclusions at the moment. Drsgylr has not had a chance to respond yet and people are already surmising what was meant and what wasnt. I am also aware that this is a highly sensitive issue and it should be a case of "wait and see" before making a decision. I am not making judgements here against anyone nor trying to stop anyone from posting. But please remember that the written word is not the spoken word and is very easily misinterpreted. Things can be taken out of context and I dont want to see this thread head down the wrong route. Lets all just take a deep breath and reeeeeeellaaaaaxxxx



C'mon guys. Lets await drgslyr's response.

 

Eeewwwww........Who has custard in the fridge?

 

Well what would happen to a German who objected against the handling of Jews? I doubt he would have been transfered to a more suitable location, shot and killed is probably the best bet. If such cases did exist perhaps they did not agree with what was going on but for their own safety and the safety of their families perhaps they to followed the survival of the fittest rule?

From archived footage I have seen of the aftermath of the liberation of various concentration camps it seems like similar situations may have existed in the civilian population as well.

I would usually say "ask a veteran" but if you ask a German about his role in the war odds are many people will disagree with his account and call him a liar because of social stigmas relating to World War II.

Edit: PeterG, Not sure how far that goes, again from the archival footage I have seen it really seems like these people had no idea. How many people are truly able to identify the spell of burning flesh? The US army was flying spy planes over various concentration camps yet they didn't know what they were for, if they weren't able to figure it out with technology how would the poor farm worker living near the camps be able too?

Again this is just my two cents, if I'm missing the bigger picture let me know.

 

While we, at the suggestion of the moderators and others, wait for Drgslyr to “clarify” his original posting may I take this opportunity of making just a few points ?

1. Dbf, if I read her correctly, would accuse me of what can only be described as cherry-picking, i.e. only quoting the parts of his posting that suit my purpose.

I, in turn, would bitterly refute this suggestion. The method of highlighting a portion of text is as old as the hills and, in my case, at least, was meant to save the reader having to laboriously read through all of the text in question

To avoid further recriminations however, I promise in future to quote in full any of her text about which I wish to make comment

2. When our two learned Moderators made comment I was half expecting them to ask me to moderate my language and, in all truth, if I were writing my piece again I would have chosen to say “twisted logic” rather than “madness”. For this, in the interests of Forum decorum, I duly apologise to all concerned.

However…………….There is a joke that used to circulate amongst like-minded cynics such as myself that went as follows.

Two Jews, let us call them Joe and Mo, were in the process of being executed by a firing squad.

The Officer in charge of the squad offers them the customary blind-folds which Joe is happy to accept.

Mo, when offered the blindfold, refuses, at which point Joe says “Mo, please don’t make trouble!”

The millions who were slaughtered in the camps are not here to object when, I shall say no more than , ill advised observations are offered for general consumption.

As someone who’s family lived and suffered during the tempestuous period of WW2 I reserve the right to reply if and when I see something that I consider has overstepped accepted boundaries and, if this is construed as “making trouble” then so be it.

Ron

 

Lords Ladies and Gentlemen,once again can I ask that people await the reply of Drsgylr before pitching in again on this. Again I stress that this is an emotive issue and this is the type of discussion where people can post statements that they might later regret or in the heat of the moment end up offending someone without meaning to.

Until Drsgylr returns and quantifies his comments all else referring to his posts is purely speculative and this thread cannot progress properly until he returns and has a chance to defend/explain his opinions.

 

Custard in the Fridge GH Is that a Irish thing?

 

No comment.

 

But surely 'Hot'




Right I'm off to do some charity work. Tootle pip old bean