To the Last Canadian

Discussion in 'Historiography' started by canuck, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    A controversial view from Terry Copp.

    This didn't copy well so the original, along with charts, can be viewed at:
    http://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1491&context=cmh

    To the Last Canadian?
    Casualties in 21st Army Group
    Terry Copp
    When Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy
    was assessed

    before publication the commentators

    were particularly unhappy with the
    historiographical summary which
    challenged the received version of
    combat effectiveness in Normandy.
    No one offered serious criticism of
    the evidence; it was the tone that
    concerned them. My autobiographical
    comment about Clausewitz that as “a
    social historian escaping a world
    dominated by Marxists I was entitled
    to be suspicious of yet another 19th

    century authority figure” was not well
    received. To follow this with pointed
    criticism of C.P. Stacey and John A.
    English not to mention Carlo D’Este
    and Max Hastings was considered
    ill-mannered and presumptuous.
    After publication the book received
    a number of favourable reviews as
    well as some sharply critical ones.
    The focus of these critiques was
    my rejection of the notions that the
    German army in Normandy had
    demonstrated consistent “tactical
    superiority” and the last paragraph
    of my conclusion which read:
    The Canadian citizen army that
    fought in the Battle of Normandy
    played a role all out of proportion
    to its relative strength among the
    Allied armies. This was especially
    true within 21st Army Group where,
    due to a mixture of Canadian pride,
    and the British desire to limit their
    own casualties, Canadian divisions
    were required to fight more often
    than their British counterparts.
    The oft-quoted statistics, which
    show that the Canadians suffered
    considerably heavier casualties than
    other divisions in 21 Army Group,
    are the product of a greater number of
    days in close combat with the enemy,
    not evidence of operational or tactical
    failure. Perhaps it is time to recognize
    the extraordinary achievements
    that marked the progress of the
    Canadians across Normandy’s fields
    of fire.




    1

    I wish to provide in this paper a
    detailed analysis of casualties in 21st
    Army Group which will substantiate
    the argument made in




    Fields of Fire.

    Before I take you through the hard

    evidence I want to offer a brief
    history of the formation of both the
    combat effectiveness and casualty
    rate hypotheses.
    A number of years ago my
    longtime friend Jack Granatstein
    provided readers of the Toronto




    Star

    with an account of what he called
    the left-wing takeover of social
    labour history in Canada. The article,
    title “No Hostages taken in war
    between historians” noted that Terry
    Copp “left the field in disgust after
    full-fledged assaults from Marxist
    historians.” All of this came as a
    surprise to me. I was unaware of any
    full-fledged assaults though I did
    recall that two of the leading leftists,
    Greg Kealey and Brian Palmer, had
    called me a “corporate liberal.” At
    the time I had taken this as evidence
    that they had actually read and
    understood




    The Anatomy of Poverty

    and recognized my centrist, incomeredistribution
    bias.
    While work on industrial
    unionism in the 1940s was interesting
    to me, the truth is that the purpose
    had been to lay the foundation for
    a sequel to




    The Anatomy of Poverty

    examining the prosperity of the
    1940s and 1950s. Success stories
    about capitalism were not a popular
    subject among academics in the 1970s
    so I was open to the suggestion that
    with a sabbatical coming up I should
    consider a project with my friend
    and mentor Robert Vogel, a military
    historian at McGill University. One
    attraction was exchanging time
    in labour archives in places like
    Hull, Detroit and New Jersey, for
    France, Belgium and Holland. In
    the spring of 1981 my wife and I
    made our first visit to the Second
    World War battlefields. Experience
    as an officer cadet in the Canadian
    Officers’ Training Corps during my
    undergraduate years had given me an
    unfashionable but very real respect
    A




    bstract: In Normandy, Canadian infantry

    divisions suffered a higher rate of

    casualties than British divisions engaged
    in similar operations. These figures
    have been used by some historians to

    prove Canadian failure on the battlefield.
    However, by using statistics gathered by
    operational research scientists during
    the war, this article shows that the
    “considerably heavier casualties” suffered
    by the Canadians in Normandy and beyond
    were the product of a greater number of
    days in close combat with the enemy, not
    evidence of operational inexperience or
    tactical failure.
    ©




    Canadian Military History, Volume 18, Number 1, Winter 2009, pp.3-6.

    1
    Copp: To the Last Canadian?
    Produced by The Berkeley Electronic Press, 2009
    4
    for the Canadian army but I had not
    read much military history. I decided
    to go and see the battlefields before
    I began to write about them. At the
    time, Bob Vogel and I were focused
    on the battle for the approaches to
    Antwerp and despite constant rain
    my wife and I spent a week walking
    the ground. I defy anyone with an
    open mind who visits the Leopold
    Canal or Woensdrecht ridge to
    come away without developing a
    profound respect for the men who
    fought to overcome their enemy
    in such terrain. The ground, as my
    students have heard me say so often,
    must be the military historians’ basic
    primary source. When I learned
    from military historians that the
    attacker was supposed to have
    at least 3:1 odds to overcome the
    defender and calculated that in the
    Scheldt, the ratio was seldom better
    than 1.5:1 my skepticism about
    German combat effectiveness versus
    Canadian inexperience became the
    basis of a research question which
    I have argued in a number of books
    and articles. A second research
    question, the one we are focusing
    on today, also developed out of my
    interest in the battles in the Scheldt
    Estuary.
    My uncle Douglas “Paddy”
    Copp, who had served as a company
    sergeant-major in the British 52nd
    Lowland Division, had a number of
    stories about his wartime experience
    including strong views about the
    Canadians he had met in Holland.
    He thought they were undisciplined,
    dirty, tough, accomplished soldiers
    who were, by late October 1944,
    in very rough shape. He could not
    understand why his full-strength,
    highly trained division had sat out
    the war in Scotland and was even
    at this late date used so sparingly
    in the struggle to open Antwerp.
    In




    Cinderella Army I sketched the

    tension between the Canadians and

    Scots which my uncle described and


    archival sources confirmed. I was able
    to establish that after 52nd Division’s
    role in the deception operation
    “Fortitude North,” an attack on
    Norway, ended, and its second role
    as an air transportable division was
    discarded with the failure at Arnhem,
    Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke wanted
    to save the division for the Far East.
    In fact, in October 1944 Brooke also
    asked Montgomery to return 3rd
    British Infantry Division, a regular
    division, to the UK for use in Burma.
    Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery
    persuaded him to leave 3rd Division
    and send 52nd to the continent, but
    the Far East, the Mediterranean and
    post-war occupation issues loomed
    large in Churchill and Brooke’s
    calculations.




    2

    When I read this exchange in
    the Alanbrooke Papers some of my
    innocence about British war-time
    goals disappeared but it was not
    until much later when I was trying
    to get background on Operation
    Photo by Mike Bechthold
    Canadian casualties in Normandy along the road to Bretteville-sur-Laize, 9 August 1944.
    2
    Canadian Military History, Vol. 18 [2009], Iss. 1, Art. 2
    "To the Last Canadian?" by Terry Copp
    5
    “Wallstreet,” the plan to cross
    the Rhine at Arnhem in February
    1945 that I began to wonder if a
    pattern was emerging.




    3 General G.H.

    Macmillan, the commander of 49th

    West Riding Division, had developed


    “Wallstreet,” and convinced Simonds
    of its merits but Montgomery was not
    interested. My interviews, especially
    with Brigadier Trevor Hart Dyke,
    a former battalion commander in
    49th Division, suggested that the
    officers of 49th Division could not
    understand why they spent most of
    the war holding quieter sections of
    the line or conforming to the advance
    of other formations during offensive
    action.




    4

    Further research in British sources
    indicated that in Normandy the 53rd
    Welsh Division played a holding
    role except for a very brief period in
    August. Other British divisions also
    experienced prolonged stretches of
    relative inactivity, at least in contrast
    to the Canadian experience. During
    the struggle to close the Falaise
    and Trun-Chambois gap, British
    divisions, in a position to intervene
    decisively, were ordered to keep out
    of the messy business of trapping
    a German army so that they could
    concentrate on preparation for the
    advance to the Seine and the Rhine.




    5

    This kind of evidence is what led
    me to argue that the “considerably
    heavier casualties” suffered by the
    Canadians in Normandy and beyond
    were the product of a greater number
    of days in close combat with the
    enemy, not evidence of operational
    inexperience or tactical failure. Now
    thanks to Army Operational Research
    Group Report 21/54 “Battle Wastage
    Rates of Personnel in War,” I am able
    to fully document this contention.
    The report, from the Ronnie Shephard
    Operational Research Archives at the
    Laurier Centre for Military Strategic
    and Disarmament Studies, will be
    published in full in the near future
    with an appropriate introduction.




    6

    The Army Operational Research
    Group produced their study in
    1946 to provide “a reliable means
    of forecasting battle and non-battle
    Photo by M.M. Dean, Library and Archives Canada PA 132907
    The Canadian War Cemetery at Beny-sur-Mer, France. This cemetery contains the bodies of over 2,000 Canadians
    who were killed in on D-Day and in the battles which lead to the capture of Caen in early July 1944.
    3
    Copp: To the Last Canadian?
    Produced by The Berkeley Electronic Press, 2009
    6
    wastage under varying military
    conditions.” During the war both
    the British and Canadian armies
    had used tables of wastage rates
    developed by Major-General Evett
    who in turn had created wastage
    table based on Great War experience.
    These tables expressed “wastage as a
    percentage of strength lost per thirty
    days of activity at Intense, Normal,
    and Quiet levels.” Intense rates were
    defined as “at least one battalion
    engaged in full scale defensive or
    offensive fighting.”




    7 I have used these

    criteria to add the data on Canadian
    casualties suffered under “intense”
    conditions.
    Our concern today is with the
    data on infantry division casualties
    in Northwest Europe which
    Field Marshal Montgomery had
    drawn attention to in his




    Memoirs.

    Montgomery’s table of “Cumulative

    Casualties by Divisions, 6 June to 1


    October 1944,” revealed that “3rd
    Canadian Infantry Division had more
    casualties than any other division in
    the army group and the 2nd Canadian
    Division was next.”




    8 C.P. Stacey

    who presented this information in

    the context of his criticism of the
    performance of Canadian formations
    did not consider evidence about the
    number of days divisions spent in
    intense combat and his views have

    continued to influence historians.



    9

    Table 1 contains information that
    might be of interest.
    The operational research group
    recognized that British divisions were
    not committed to many significant
    offensive or defensive operations
    between 1 October and 30 December
    1944 so they combined the three
    month period into a single table. The
    43rd Division with seven days of
    intense combat was the most heavily
    committed with 3rd British at five
    days second. Table 2 compares the
    British and Canadian experience for
    those three months.
    The data presented today is
    incomplete, particularly with regard
    to casualty rates under “normal”
    conditions. In July and August 1944,
    especially during what I have termed
    the stalemate, casualties suffered
    while in “normal” contact with the
    enemy, without significant offensive
    or defensive actions, accounted for
    30 percent of all casualties. There
    are other limitations including the
    exclusion of exhaustion casualties
    from the totals but I think there is
    enough evidence to substantiate my
    statement that casualties are closely
    related to the number of days spent
    in close combat and to explain why
    I continue to argue that the heavier
    casualties suffered by Canadian
    divisions in 1944 are the result of
    a greater number of days in close
    combat with the enemy, not evidence
    of operational or tactical failure.
    Notes
    This is a revised text of Terry Copp’s
    presentation to the 19th Military History
    Colloquium at University of Waterloo, May
    2008.
    1. Terry Copp,





    Fields of Fire: The Canadians

    in Normandy


    (Toronto: University of

    Toronto Press, 2003), p.267.

    2. Lord Alanbrooke Papers, Liddell
    Hart Archives, correspondence with
    Montgomery, September-October 1945.
    3. The background to Operation Wallstreet
    is sketched in Terry Copp,




    Cinderella

    Army: The Canadian Army in Northwest

    Europe, 1944-1945




    (Toronto: University

    of Toronto Press, 2006), pp.213-214.

    4. Interview notes, Terry Copp with


    Brigadier Trevor Hart Dyke, Sheffield,
    England, July 1986.
    5. Copp,




    Fields of Fire, p.265.

    6. The report may also be found in the The
    National Archives (Public Record Office),
    WO 291/1482.
    7. I have used the definition of intense
    combat employed by the OR team
    eliminating any days of combat which
    fell just short of the criteria.
    8. Bernard Law Montgomery,





    The Memoirs

    of Field Marshal Montgomery


    (New York:

    Signet, 1959), p.277.

    9. C.P. Stacey,




    The Victory Campaign: The

    Operations in North-West Europe, 1944-

    1945




    (Ottawa: National Defence, 1960),

    p.271.


    Table 2




    Intense Combat Days & Casualties

    1 October to 31 December 1944
    Days Casualties
    Ten British Divisions




    25 12,528

    Three Canadian Divisions


    54 10,097

    Terry Copp is director of the Laurier
    Centre for Military Strategic and
    Disarmament Studies and professor
    emeritus at Wilfrid Laurier University.
    He is the author or co-author of 14 books
    and many articles on the Canadian role
    in the Second World War including
    travel guides to the Canadian battlefields.
    Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy
    (University of Toronto Press), won the
    2004 Distinguished Book Award for non-
    US history from the American Society for
    Military History.




    4
     
    gpo son likes this.
  2. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    I always find Terry Copp's work provocative and enlightening, although his persistent refrain of what a Martyr to the Truth he is is somewhat tiresome.

    It seems to me, however, that he's really advancing two arguments in this piece, one that he provides evidence for and one that he doesn't.

    The overt argument - that "the heavier casualties suffered by Canadian divisions in 1944 are the result of a greater number of days in close combat with the enemy, not evidence of operational or tactical failure" - has much to commend it.

    The implicit argument - that this unusually long exposure to close combat was due to "a mixture of Canadian pride, and the British desire to limit their own casualties" (the latter embodied in the article's unecessarily provocative title) - is rather less well developed, however, particularly with regard to British intentions.

    I haven't read Fields of Fire or Cinderella Army in full and I don't have copies of either to hand, so it's possible that he makes a better case for it there. But there seems to be strong counterevidence that far from wanting to commit the 1st Canadian Army as heavily as possible, Montgomery was reluctant to give it any important commitments at all, mostly because of his limited confidence in Crerar, and that its eventual overcommitment was more a matter of chance than design [1]. It would be interesting to know more about Copp's position on this.

    Best, Alan

    [1] Stephen Hart, Colossal Cracks, p. 166-173.
     
  3. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Alan,

    With respect to the 'Canadian pride' component of that argument, Hart himself acknowledges that Crerar, despite having the option to withdraw the cooperation of Canadian forces under certain conditions, chose never to do so throughout the campaign and, in particular, accepted the Scheldt operation which was beyond their existing resources [1].
    The overall shortage of infantry in both the British and Canadian Armies by the fall of 1944 makes the statement about the 'desire to limit casualties' almost self evident, for all parties.
    It would have been helpful if Copp had provided some relative weighting to his dual assertion, "a mixture of Canadian pride, and the British desire to limit their own casualties"


    [1] Stephen Hart, Colossal Cracks, p. 156
     
  4. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    The overall shortage of infantry in both the British and Canadian Armies by the fall of 1944 makes the statement about the 'desire to limit casualties' almost self evident, for all parties.

    Sure, but Copp goes well beyond this to strongly imply (without ever exactly spelling it out - his language is annoyingly opaque) that the Canadians were being deliberately placed in the line of danger in order to preserve British manpower. It's an argument he may develop in his two books - as I say, I haven't read them in detail - but he presents no evidence for it here. Which is why I wonder if that provocative title of his was really wise.

    Best, Alan
     
  5. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    I'll have to rummage through some boxes and find my copy of Fields of Fire.

    Copp does put forward some references to various British formations which were "under utilized". Perhaps an unfair comparison as the Canadian units were more difficult to extricate from the 'national' army. It might be instructive to know how many British divisions were rested during that period.

    The officers of 49th Division could not understand why they spent most of the war holding quieter sections of the line or conforming to the advance of other formations during offensive action.
    Further research in British sources indicated that in Normandy the 53rd Welsh Division played a holding role except for a very brief period in August. Other British divisions also experienced prolonged stretches of relative inactivity, at least in contrast to the Canadian experience. During the struggle to close the Falaise and Trun-Chambois gap, British divisions, in a position to intervene decisively, were ordered to keep out of the messy business of trapping a German army so that they could concentrate on preparation for the advance to the Seine and the Rhine.
     
  6. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    After studying 50th Division, it seems clear to me that Montgomery played favorites among his divisions, trusting some more than others. He was better pleased with the work of the new divisions in Normandy, and came to have less faith in the older outfits like the 50th, 51st, and 7th Armoured. The 49th was new and did OK, but Montgomery was furious when a battalion of the Duke's collapsed in Normandy and he may have held that against the 49th thereafter. On the other side of the coin, he liked his old division, the 3rd, and the Canadians as well. He had them under his command in the UK earlier in the war, and he always thought well of the Canadian rankers and junior officers. Montgomery did not like Crerar but he was a great admirer of Guy Simonds, who seems to have been the real force in 1st Canadian Army. Simonds was a 'thruster,' of course, and many Canadians felt that he pushed too hard and showed too little regard for casualties and tactical realities. Such, at least, are my impressions from the literature. I tend to doubt that Montgomery favored 'the British' consciously, but he certainly had his preferences among the divisions. Being a Montgomery favorite was not easy for British divisions either; he used the 50th, 51st, and 7th Armd so hard in the Med that they were war-weary by the time of D-Day, the last two especially. I would like to see some information about other British divisions in NWE, such as the 43rd, 15th, and 11th Armoured, all of which had good reputations. Also, how much did Montgomery really know about the shortage of Canadian reinforcements?
     
  7. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

    Also, how much did Montgomery really know about the shortage of Canadian reinforcements?
    An article in the Canadian Army Journal Vol 14 entitled
    REASSESSMENT OF A CRISIS:
    Canadian Infantry Reinforcements during the Second World War
    http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_14/iss_2/CAJ_Vol14.2_09_e.pdf

    has this brief mention:
    In fact, as of March, the potential shortfall of infantrymen was brought up by leaders in the Canadian Army and even by Field Marshall BL Montgomery, Commander-in-Chief of the 21st Army Group. Indeed, the forecasted wastage rate over 3 months for an infantry unit during periods of intense activity was 48 percent, rather than the 76 percent actually sustained by these units during fighting in North-West Europe in 1944.3
    Unfortunately the author goes into no further detail on what Montgomery brought up.

    Cheers
    Mark
     
  8. Swiper

    Swiper Resident Sospan

    Alan,

    "The officers of 49th Division could not understand why they spent most of the war holding quieter sections of the line or conforming to the advance of other formations during offensive action.
    Further research in British sources indicated that in Normandy the 53rd Welsh Division played a holding role except for a very brief period in August. Other British divisions also experienced prolonged stretches of relative inactivity, at least in contrast to the Canadian experience. During the struggle to close the Falaise and Trun-Chambois gap, British divisions, in a position to intervene decisively, were ordered to keep out of the messy business of trapping a German army so that they could concentrate on preparation for the advance to the Seine and the Rhine."[1] Stephen Hart, Colossal Cracks, p. 156


    I'd argue that Hart is incorrect in his statement of 53 Div's inactivity, infact the information is they were somewhat heavily engaged for much of July and August.

    Equally I've noticed Copp make numerous mistakes on 53 Div, and some other British formations, I believe this is often because he only checks Divisional level documents (at least according to his references) never checking down to Battalion level to ascertain the position of units and what they are doing. A minor criticism but its one I've noticed in Fields of Fire.
     
  9. gpo son

    gpo son Senior Member

    Copp may have a bias towards the level of Canadian commitment to battle during the Normandy campaign and indeed all combat in north west Europe. The fact is the 3rd CID division was in the line from d-day until mid July, the only other division to remain in the line contuniously was the 6th airbourne [they had a Canadian battalion as well]. From d-day to d+30 there were no less than 12 British divisions landed in Normandy [none relieved the 3rd CID]. The 1st Can Corp only became operational in early July after the 2nd CID arrived [July 8th]. When Goodwood was launched with the idea of saving infantry; the 2nd and 3rd Canadian divs launched Atlantic, there was certainly no economy of infantry in this operation. Nor the follow on [holding attack] Operation Spring and the debacle it turned out to be. Brigadier Cunningham [of the 9th brigade] turned in his pips rather than order another doomed attack at Tilly. The 5th Brigade was shattered at Verriere Ridge. The 3rd division suffered nearly 100% Casualties in the first 30 days of the campaign the 2nd Div faired worse in its first month. By August 8th the 2nd CID was short almost 1900 riflemen and had had nearly 800 battle exhaustion cases evacuated. Simonds realized about this time that if his Corps was to be the spearhead of operation Totalize down the Caen-Falaise road he would have to better protect his Divisions or have nothing left to command by the end of August [hence the Kangaroo].
    My unabashedly Canadian biased opinion, the Canadians were certainly exposed to very intense and close combat for extended periods in highly exposed positions in front of Carpiquet, Verson, Authie, Caen and Verriere. While fighting aggressive advances down the Failaise road in the following days. Keeping the Gap closed. Only the Poles suffered greater losses in this great victory.
    IMHO
    Matt
     
  10. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Randy (17thDYRCH) and I spent a delightful lunch today with a veteran of the 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars.

    This is purely anecdotal but in a rather blunt fashion he explained that Canadian soldiers, at least in his regiment, held a universal distain for Monty. Be it reality or perception, the cause for this animosity was as explained in previous posts. To quote our veteran, "He was saving the British soldiers and always sending in the Canadian and Polish units for the dirtiest jobs".
    The cemeteries might refute that statement but easy to see how the 'them and us' feeling might arise. In any event, he carries that strongly held opinion 68 years later.
     
  11. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    To quote our veteran, "He was saving the British soldiers and always sending in the Canadian and Polish units for the dirtiest jobs".

    Rather an odd statement given the limited role (other than August) of the Poles..
    Odd too that the Czech Armoured Brigade was not 'wasted' in a similar manner......
     
  12. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Rather an odd statement given the limited role (other than August) of the Poles..
    Odd too that the Czech Armoured Brigade was not 'wasted' in a similar manner......

    Agreed, but you can't debate opinions. It is a perception that prevails and perhaps even from an isolate incident where it was valid. Human nature thrives on "them and us".
     

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