Tiger II (King Tiger) in Holland?

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by stolpi, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    I came across a picture of a Tiger II in what seems to me a typical Dutch setting, though the cobble stoned road-plaster in the foreground also could make it Belgium (Flanders).

    Never saw this photo before; does anyone know where this picture was taken. Tiger II's have rarely been used in combat in the Netherlands; a place known to me is Oosterbeek/Arnhem/The Island - Sept/Oct 1944 - where Tiger tanks of the s.Pz.Abteilung 506 saw action.

    Tiger II in Holland.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  3. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  4. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Nice pictures!
     
  5. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Anyone had any luck with a 'then and now' identification of this photo? I've had a go but no luck. I thought the railway lines behind the tank would help but sadly not. Are we sure the photo was taken in Beauvais? I gather 113 got as far as Jemappes just west of Mons before being abandoned by its crew (see photo). Not a bad effort considering it presumably did this on its tracks and had come all the way from Normandy.
     

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  6. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Possibly a Tramway rather than railway line? I know that sounds 'picky' but, as you know, the devil (in this case possible answer) lies in the detail. I don't have access to a large scale period map of Beauvais as otherwise I would look it up!....as you do :)
     
  7. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    If the KT in picture 1 is identical to the wreck in Mons, then this is not Beauvais:

    Between 3 and 4 April 1944, the Abteilung transferred to Beauvais in France, where it received a further 25 Tigers on 20 April. On 1 June, 37 of the 45 Tigers are reported ready for action.

    Between 7 and 12 June, the division was transferred by road to Normandy. It is exposed to heavy air attacks. Many Tigers are left behind.

    After heavy fighting, the 1st / hands over its remaining 3 Tigers to the 3rd / and is transferred to Sennelager to be equipped with the new Tiger II.

    In mid-August 1944 the division was transferred to the area of AOK 7 (trip number 163593 from Paderborn to Sommesous with passage through Revigny on 15 August).

    Already on 18 August the 1st / is back in France and is unloaded with its 14 Tiger II. The first use of the new tanks is on 23 August 1944, when the 1st / supports a counterattack of the 18th Luftwaffe Field Division. On 25 August, 2 more Tiger IIs of the s.SS.Pz-Abt. 103 are taken over.

    At the end of August 1944 all Tigers of the 2nd and 3rd are destroyed, the 1st only manages to save one Tiger II on 5 September. The remains of the division were ordered to Bielefeld for reassembly.


    Just guessing, I would assume Revigny as a possible location. Road paving and tramway tracks look very similar at least:
    revigny.png
     
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  8. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Many thanks! I had the same thought and there is a steam tramway nearby at Crèvecoeur-le-Grand to the north of Beauvais. However, it doesn't currently link to Beauvais and I currently haven't been able to find out whether it did historically.

    Time to check out Itdan's interesting post....
     
  9. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Hi Itdan - many thanks. I have had a quick look at Revigny and I'm not sure that's our place as the buildings in the 'Beauvais photo' look to be mainly brick, whereas Revigny's buildings look to be made of limestone. There was however a tramway linking Triaucourt-Revigny-Haironville so that might be of significance. Sommesous makes sense as it is next to the Mailly-le-Camp training area, which would presumably have been an assembly area in 1944.

    Unless the photo of 113 is of the single Tiger II saved on 5 Sep, then the photo suggests that it was taken in mid-August as 1.s SS-Pz. Abt. 101 moved from Mailly to Normandy to support the counter-attack.

    The three soldiers sitting on the bench bottom left of the first photo look pretty relaxed and out of place if this was taken during the Rückzug.

    The search goes on...
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    ATB's (Excellent) 'Ruckmarsch'.
    Sorry about the quality. Quick phone grab.
    IMG_20210209_151122730_HDR.jpg

    "Junction of Rue du Pressoir Coquet with Rue de Clermont."

    Google Maps link to the rough area:
    Google Maps
     
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  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

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  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  13. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Excellent work VP, although you have driven a coach and horses (well, a Tiger II) through my time-killing lockdown project! At least we got the 'moving westwards' bit right. I think the roads must have changed since the ATB picture as I believe the Tiger was just about to pass the junction of Rue de Clermont and Rue de Fermpin. The prominent white building on the right of the original b+w photo is, I think, the building with the odd-shaped grey roof with skylights plus of the 3,5t sign.
    I spent so long trying to work out how to drop a pin, you and Owen have beaten me to it. Hey ho.
    113_Beauvais.jpg Screenshot 2021-02-09 at 15.50.20.png
     
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