Thomas Frayne M.M.

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by 4jonboy, May 22, 2012.

  1. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Thomas Frayne MM

    Seen this headstone in Goole Cemetery. No relation but just curious to find out why he was awarded the Military Medal. Seen a mention of him in the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 31st May 1918.(Yorks and Lancs Regt) Can anyone help?

    Photo courtesy of findagrave
    [​IMG]
     
    Jonathan Ball likes this.
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    You'll struggle with WW1 citations - They aren't online like the WW2 ones.
     
  3. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Thanks for that Andy. I thought researching WW1 would be easier somehow!

    Lesley
     
  4. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Sir,
    My Grandson, Kyle, dabbles in WW1 affairs and after briefly speaking with him this evening he has informed me of a
    22086 Pte. T. Frayne, who won a Military Medal in 1917 and was later commisioned into the Yorks and Lancs on the 28th May 1918 this could be a possibility?

    Best

    Clifford
     
  5. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Clifford
    Thank you for that. Certainly sounds like him. I am afraid that I don't know his service number. He is buried in Goole cemetery, East Yorkshire so was a local man. I don't know whether he was born in Goole though.

    Lesley
     
  6. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Hi Lesley i have found his Medal Index Card on Ancestery

    Regards Michael.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hi Deacs
    Many thanks for the medal card and taking the trouble to look for it. At least I know he was a Goole man (Old Goole).

    Is anyone familiar with the abbreviations on it? What is the R + ? Roll?
    I wonder why one of his medals was returned?
    I cannot see anything about being awarded the MM

    Lesley
     
  8. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    His MM is Gazetted on 6th January 1917 whilst he was serving with the Machine Gun Corps

    John
     
  9. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hi Deacs
    Many thanks for the medal card and taking the trouble to look for it. At least I know he was a Goole man (Old Goole).

    Is anyone familiar with the abbreviations on it? What is the R + ? Roll?
    I wonder why one of his medals was returned?
    I cannot see anything about being awarded the MM

    Lesley

    The medal card has 'MM' after his name.

    Possibly the medal was only awarded to 'other ranks' and maybe he had to relinquish it on becoming an officer; but I don't know if that is right. Anyone out there know the answer?

    There is no match yet between the service numbers attaching to the various sources...

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Possibly the medal was only awarded to 'other ranks' and maybe he had to relinquish it on becoming an officer; but I don't know if that is right. Anyone out there know the answer?
    they kept decorations.
    have seen many decorated ex-ranker officers
    here are 177 Lieutenants with MM listed on CWGC for WW1.
    You have searched for War: First World War, Rank: Lieutenant, Honours/Awards: M M
    CWGC - Search for War Dead

    25 Captains with MM
    CWGC - Search for War Dead
     
  11. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria. Patron

    Hi Deacs
    Many thanks for the medal card and taking the trouble to look for it. At least I know he was a Goole man (Old Goole).

    Is anyone familiar with the abbreviations on it? What is the R + ? Roll?
    I wonder why one of his medals was returned?
    I cannot see anything about being awarded the MM

    Lesley

    No problem Lesley whished i could get you more details but that is all i could find.

    Regards Michael.
     
  12. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Some of the MM citations from 1917 are not that easy to trace, particularly when the MM has apparently been awarded when he was with the MGC.

    A kinsman of mine was awarded the M.M. during WW1 when he was a Sergeant with the Machine Gun Corps. I found the citation in the local newspaper of the time at the local Archives Office. If you have a local library where old newspapers from 1917 are archived possibly you could try there some time? There may also have been an obituary on the local newspaper when he died, which is of course, not so far back in time.

    Interesting to see he went from private to an officer during his service. Not a bad achievement for that time, I would say.
     
  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    they kept decorations.
    have seen many decorated ex-ranker officers
    here are 177 Lieutenants with MM listed on CWGC for WW1.
    CWGC - Search for War Dead

    25 Captains with MM
    CWGC - Search for War Dead

    Hello owen,

    It was his 1915 star that was returned, not the MM. Would the same rule apply to the Star?

    Noticed he only entered theatre on 28 August 1915, I wonder if this somehow disqualified him?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I think Dave aka Croonaert (excuse spelling) has a WW1 MM book of recipients.
     
  16. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Thanks very much everyone for taking the time to reply. When I get time I will look in the local library at the old newspapers to see if it mentions when and why he got the MM.

    Lesley

    edit- Ah I see he was awarded it in 1917 so that should narrow it down!
     
  17. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    From the Goole Times Friday December 8th, 1916

    Corp Thomas Frayne (also Lc. Corp Alfred Wheldrake)

    It looks like the Goole Times reported just about all the citation for Thomas Frayne. (There is nothing mentioned about his MM in his obituary in 1971). I must admit I was quite lucky with this citation as it was the only one with a full account of how he received it.

    I was talking to a chap I know in Goole Library today who is busy cataloguing all the WW1 men from Goole who died and I asked him about the medal being returned. He thinks it was returned because maybe his name or number were wrong and he sent it back to be corrected. Apparently all ranks were entitled to keep all the medals they were issued with.

    I also noticed that between December 1916 and January 1917 there were at least 10 or 12 men from Goole and the surrounding area who were issued with the MM.
     

    Attached Files:

    Owen and Deacs like this.
  18. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Interesting to note that the Goole Times has him enlisting in August 1914 not August 1915 (on his medal card).

    BUT the medal card has the address wrong! It says Thoorland Road and in fact it is Moorland Road.
     
  19. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball From the North.

    Lesley

    The August 1915 date on the MIC is not an enlistment date but the date Thomas landed in France.

    Nice thread.
     
  20. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Lesley

    The August 1915 date on the MIC is not an enlistment date but the date Thomas landed in France.

    Nice thread.


    Ah - didn't realise that! Should have looked more closely. Thank you.

    The medal cards from WW1 are more confusing than the service records from WW2 !!

    Lesley
     

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