THE WAFFEN-SS: Divisional Service History, Brigade/Battalion Unit List + Unit Notes.

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Christos, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Oh golly gosh....

    What if Russia had chosen to help the AXIS directly with troops and aircraft?....They could have switched sides at any time in a very Orwellian manner..


    Ok, lets just consider this statement a moment. Could have switched sides???? I just dont get your reasoning on this. The Germans marched into the Ukraine as conquerors and the soldiers were hailed as heros by the majority of the population. 6 months later they were hated. Why? Because the Germans aim was to enslave them. The Germans had the chance to recruit an entire army in the Ukraine and in Belarus to fight the soviets but because of their racial policies they managed to undo all the goodwill. Dont believe me - google Gauleiter Erich Koch. Now there's a chap who was involved in his fair share of brutality. The very essence of Nazism precluded the two countries fighting side by side. Stalin only went into the alliance to give himself time. Even whilst the pact was active the Germans sent aid to Russia's enemy Finland. Even if the Russians wanted to switch sides the germans wouldnt have let them. To the Germans the Ostfront was the real deal, Russia was the enemy since Mein Kampf!!! The west happened because Hitler misjudged the intentions of Britain and France over Poland. He didnt declare war on Britain or France - They declared war on Germany.
     
  2. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    switching sides seems to have been something the USSR did very well....why am I taken so literally when speaking figurativly?....Look, the legal niceties of the Nazi Soviet Pact obscure the importance of it's very existence....many German Generals did not want war with Russia....what if Hitler had listened?....The Med and the oil for the taking, Spain co-operates now the situation looks like an axis win, Gibraltar falls...who is left?.....RUSSIA.....a blind man could have seen that attack coming, and it had been in mprint as well sine 'Mein Kampf', a book many people had on their shelf for display but didn't actally read (rather like Steven Hawkings a Brief History of Time")....

    WOW....

    I just compared Steven Hawking to Mein Kampf!......how did I get in to this ?

    I sincerely hope Steven isn't watching this......I'm not sure he would like that at all!.......
     
  3. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    I've just posted sources...but that doesnt mean it's finished...there is a section on Skorzeny's units to slot in, and a double check on the last positions...and there are a few divisions that we STILL have no notes for...so, it's an on-going process, and with YOUR HELP, we CAN track every one of these divisions in general terms, their composition, Army organisation and combat and general human rights record.... little bit to go!
     
  4. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    switching sides seems to have been something the USSR did very well....why am I taken so literally when speaking figurativly?....Look, the legal niceties of the Nazi Soviet Pact obscure the importance of it's very existence....many German Generals did not want war with Russia....what if Hitler had listened?....The Med and the oil for the taking, Spain co-operates now the situation looks like an axis win, Gibraltar falls...who is left?.....RUSSIA.....a blind man could have seen that attack coming, and it had been in mprint as well sine 'Mein Kampf', a book many people had on their shelf for display but didn't actally read (rather like Steven Hawkings a Brief History of Time")....

    WOW....

    I just compared Steven Hawking to Mein Kampf!......how did I get in to this ?

    I sincerely hope Steven isn't watching this......I'm not sure he would like that at all!.......
    Just to clear this up, Russia could not Switch sides, she was involved in a war of extermination with the Third Reich. Whilst Germany felt she could win the war there was no way on earth that Hitler would have negotiated, by the time the Germans would have listened to the Russians, Stalin was strong enough to defeat the Germans and would have rejected any overtures. Once Hitler Attacked Russia, there was no way that anyone was switching sides.
     
  5. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    i miss chris,nice fellow that one,very passionate in his arguments.yours,lee.
     
  6. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    Why, thanks ol'mate...ya haven't seen the last of me yet.....have had a few personal hassles to sort out, including a move across a continent, having to make arrangements that meant my computer time was limited to zero.....had to shut the lot down....under a fare bit of outside pressure, so maybe my comments at the time online were a little bit sharp.....sorry for that. Moving is a bloody shambles sometimes

    Anyway....Thanks for reply and I do hope to start work back on this site soon...I'm on the computer of a good friend, who will also show me a few tricks, so that I can give you pictures and films of the air-war over Darwin, with some comentary based on bit bit of research.....and to resume work on my other posts....reply to the people etc......just nosin around at the moment
     
  7. Christos

    Christos Discharged

    OO.....a little bit of Churchill I've just remenbered.....a politician perfectly willing to go to war with Russia over the 1939/40 Winter War with Finland, a fact he openly admited to post war......The concept of switching sides is not as astounding as you suggest........Remember, Soviet Russia started World War 2 as an ALLY of the Germans...
     
  8. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Christos,
    Russia was NEVER an ALLY of the Third Reich
    The Third Reich and Soviet Union signed a Non-Agression pact, not an alliance. A Non-Agression pact is an international treaty signed by nations who agree not to go to war with each other and also to resolve any disputes by peaceful negotiation. They DID NOT sign an alliance. Russia never made any agreement to go to war on Germany's behalf or vice versa. There was a protocol attached to the agreement which divided the countries of Eastern Europe into "spheres of influence" but this was not an alliance, it was a convenience. Stalin needed it to buy time, Hitler needed it to cover his rear and prevent a two front war. at no stage did either side help each other militarily.

    Germany received vast amounts of resources from Russia but this was a trade agreement between two countries, not help from an ally. I dont know why you keep insisting this issue, they were not allies.
     
    Slipdigit likes this.
  9. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    gott,i was reading one of your posts about ukraine welcoming the germans,i agree with this but do you reeally think ukraine would raise an army to fight the soviets.yours,lee.
     
  10. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Well at the time Lee, the Ukraine had suffered greatly from the effects of collectivisation. There was essentially a famine created by the Communist Government at the time and as a consequence the mood was mutinous in parts of the Ukraine. I dont think they would have "raised an army" but you can be sure the Riech would have possessed a willing and able manpower pool from which to raise formations.
     
  11. 4th wilts

    4th wilts Discharged

    according to this very thread there were approx 100,000 ukranian volunteers joing the german army and ss,this seems alot.do you reckon its correct.lee.
     
  12. Nige GSX1400 UK

    Nige GSX1400 UK Junior Member

    The SS were not an elite, even Hitler's LAH, unless you count being over 6ft and blonde as making an elite? An elite is the SAS, Green Berets, French Foreign Legion men of honour, I know none have unblemished records as Regiments but all are far superior to the SS.
    May 28th 1940 elements of the Glos, Warks, Worcs and T.A. units along with some Royal Artillery elements held up the SS LAH with Dietrich spending most of the day in a ditch after being trapped by British units. The SS LAH couldnt rescue him, rumour says that Whermacht units had to late in the day. This is I feel one of the primary reasons the SS LAH executed approx 100 Brits and 1 French soldier in a barn nearby, because they were humiliated not just by yhte Brits but by their intense rivals the Wehrmacht.

    Unfortunately,after WW II, we and the Soviets were more concerned with the Cold War than justice and men like Dietrich lived when they should have swung or been sent to the care of the mothers of 20 million Soviet dead.
    Apologies for rant but I hate nazism,
    Nige
    Never forget those who gave their tomorrows for our todays. Or let future generations forget.
     
  13. Reinhard König

    Reinhard König Junior Member

    -
     
    Owen likes this.
  14. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Reinhard, "4th Wilts" was dishonourably discharged by the Mods from this forum. You only have to scan some of his posts to see why.
     
  15. Reinhard König

    Reinhard König Junior Member

  16. Sorry, the documents PDF did not fit. I try again.

    In order of your Thread. See documents.

    Regards, Robert
     

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