The Sten Gun

Hi All,

Same as dbf, Chindits and most troops in Burma theatre hated the gun. "Went off during tea and jammed when you were facing a Japanese 'banzai' charge".

" Best just throw the thing at them"! (quote).

Bamboo.

 

The talk of two tenths of a thou to a life Long engineer, quite honestly is plain laughable.. Or two thou. The blasted thing fitted where it touched ! There were hardly any limits.... IT was so loose it rattled.

IT was a real shocker and caused lots of casualties amongst our own men, Some that lost their Digits! It jammed very often, it fired on its own far too often, It was a bloody dogs breakfast of a weapon. There is nothing quite so reassuring as to come face to face with the enemy, and your Sten jams...It happened !

This is the real story of the Sten by a friend of mine...

Warwick Hospital
The Best and the Worst.
One of the first men that I met in my ward, I had known in Normandy, he was just learning to walk again with an artificial leg when I arrived. The Gods of war deals some very odd hands at times. This man had been on patrol when he came face to face with the Enemy, his Sten jammed, the German let fly with an anti-tank weapon, (A Panzerfaust. Tank Killer) the projectile hit the corner of a farmhouse wall and showered him with shrapnel, he dived into a foxhole alongside of a burning haystack that promptly fell on top of him, getting out, he badly burned his hands. Now, badly injured, with burns to hands and face and lots of shrapnel wounds, he made his way back to get aid and trod on a schu mine blowing his foot off.
Sapper

 

I believe that it was in George Blackburn's book, "The Guns of Victory" where he relates a story of accompanying a group of infantry during a night attack. As I recall, he describes approaching a house which was supposed to be close to the German forward line. When the soldiers got to the house it suddenly burst into flames. The Germans had covered the floor of the building with straw and doused it with gasoline. Once they knew they were under attack, they lit this up and illuminated the whole area. The Canadians ended up retreating and re-grouping.

One of the soldiers, when he made his way back to the group that Blackburn was with was laughing and when asked what was so funny he related a story that went something like;
..when the house burst into flame and all the firing started he ran and dove into a slit trench and found himself face to face with a German. He had just about landed on top of his enemy. Armed with a Sten gun that he knew was unreliable, he pulled the trigger as the gun was already pressed against the belly of the German. The men with him asked what happened then and he replied, "It went off!" The all laughed together at this. Luckily for this man, the one time he really needed his gun to fire properly, it did.

With regards to Mr. Blackburn, I believe that he has the distinction of being one of the longest surviving FOO's in the Canadian Army in Europe during WW2. The one time he was wounded was the result of an accidental discharge of a Sten gun.

 

I am re-reading David Holbrook's "Flesh Wounds", and came across the reference to the Sten Gun as the Spam Gun.

I scanned the previous posts and did not see any comments on this. I was wondering from the veterans if this was common during the war or whether this developed after the war among veterans groups?

 

A relative served with the Perth Regiment, 5th Canadian Division, in the Italian Campaign. He thought the Sten gun was junk. Constantly jammed.
He threw his away and obtained a Thompson Machine gun. I read somewhere that the cost to produce a Sten gun was around $4.00 vs $25.00 for the Thompson MG.

 

Some of the best WW2 battlefield memoirs came from the pen of George Blackburn...
Where are the Guns, Guns of Normandy and Guns of Victory. All in response to the CBC Documentary "The Valour and the Horror"

 

Some of the best WW2 battlefield memoirs came from the pen of George Blackburn...
Where are the Guns, Guns of Normandy and Guns of Victory. All in response to the CBC Documentary "The Valour and the Horror"

Finished his Guns of Victory a couple of weeks ago, would give it 7 out of 10.
As an Can Arty FOO i found he dose'nt realy give the bigger picture of the Arty Preparations in which their involved, Scheldt, Veritable, Plunder etc, these were some of the biggest Arty Battles of WW2, more of an Infantry take on things, not what i expected from an Artilleryman.
Dad's Regt 10th Med were with the 2Can AGRA and were in action with Blackburn's 4th Field RCA in many of these battles.
Just my opinion.
Regards
Rob

 

Thirty Rounds Later by Norm Carlson

This article, originally appearing in the April 1994 issue of Legion Magazine, described well how the Sten came to earn its reputation.


Our unit had moved back into the lines occupying yet another hilltop...in the area known as the Jamestown Line...It was April 1953, early spring and the nights were still long and black. The stress of occupying a new position was upon the 3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. We had moved in during the night, the relief had gone off without too many hitches, and the day had been spent...trying to figure out where the heck we were.
Just prior to dark, the company commander called his first O - for orders - group. ...we were all briefed on each platoon's position, special weapons, and other concerns - such as a big gap between our left flank and...our neighbouring company. This unoccupied ground was part of a wide valley with a shallow creek running down the middle; anyone could use it for a walkway. The remainder of the valley was covered with last year's tall rice grass, giving cover to a possible enemy approach.

I was to make a recce of the near end of the valley and establish a gun-pit that could be used as a listening post, as well as a fire-pit should we intercept any enemy...Upon establishing the position, I was to report to the commanding officer...We met at the cook's bunker at the rear of the hill... We told the corporal of our intentions, then the four of us set out - hoping to find a spot of ground high enough to observe from, yet low enough to keep out of sight. The night was black as pitch...With the help of some far-off flares we found a suitable position and after a half-hour of digging had a hole to get down into - just in case. I left a phone at the position and, on my way back to the company position, unwound a roll of phone wire.
I got back to (the) cook's bunker to be met by the corporal, who had...organized a relief party which he had standing by. We were talking just outside a marquee tent being used as a kitchen...Suddenly we were interrupted by a short swishing sound, followed by a sharp bang from the kitchen area. We hit the dirt, sure the enemy hordes had overrun our new position and followed me in...
It had sounded like a rifle shot, the corporal and I agreed. Probably it was a lone sharpshooter firing out of the creek bed. Anyway, he had to be stopped - and the sooner the better. I told the corporal to follow me and we headed out, I with my rifle and he with his Sten gun. We moved to the creek bank and peered over the edge. Naturally we couldn't see a thing so we moved off, following the top of the bank. About this time, some of my high-quality training started to kick in, reminding me not to skyline myself. I stopped abruptly, intending to pass this tidbit on to the corporal and suggest we change our tactics. But, in the darkness, he bumped into me and momentarily lost his footing. While jostling about, there was a heck of a bang as his Sten gun fired...
The shock of having his weapon fire without warning probably caused my comrade's next problem. He dropped his gun. After the initial shot the weapon must have re-cocked itself, because when it hit the ground it recommenced firing. We could see by the muzzle flashes which way the weapon was pointing. Each time it fired, the recoil would spin the gun in a circle, faster and faster. It seemed that each round was headed directly at my feet; no doubt my partner thought the same.
At first we did some shy polka steps to avoid getting hit, but as the rotation speed increased so did our dance. With about 10 rounds to go the muzzle of the weapon started flipping up, as if looking for a larger target. It was then that the first primitive steps of what would later become known as break-dancing came into being...
The firing stopped as abruptly as it had started, leaving us both gasping for air. The corporal picked up his weapon and ripped off the magazine, no doubt to ensure that it couldn't start firing again. We confirmed that the magazine was indeed empty; all 30 rounds had fired without a stoppage.
With great relief we found that neither of us had been hit. Just at that moment, one of the other kitchen helpers arrived to tell us the big bang we'd heard earlier had been caused by an artillery round. A fragment had fallen off in its way north and had torn through the tent, slamming into the steel flour barrel....
We both must have felt like the prisoner who had just been reprieved from the gallows...We started to snicker and, before we knew it, were both rolling on the ground and howling with laughter. I tried to stop; this wasn't normal procedure. Nowhere in the book does it say a patrol can take time out for hilarity, let alone make unnecessary sounds in the night. But the harder we tried to stop, the more we carried on - much to the bewilderment of the others...
Our gaiety was brought to a halt when the company runner appeared, stating: "The OC wants to know what the hell is going on down there. Report to him at once."
...Just as I was moving off, I heard my partner...distinctly say "This stupid weapon is a hazard and I'll never carry it again."
I've heard the same sentiments about the Sten gun many times since - but usually in reference to its nasty habit of jamming.

Illustrations by Barbara Spurll originally appeared in Legion Magazine, April 1994 issue.

 

and of course there is always simple operator error.............

YouTube - Ernest - I Didn't Know It Was Loaded

 

You know if one of those rounds actually got Ernest, it would have made up for a lot of the negatives in the Sten's history.

 

You know if one of those rounds actually got Ernest, it would have made up for a lot of the negatives in the Sten's history.

:m1:


Apparently cancer got him first!

 

I am quite sceptical as to whether they were really that bad.


I watched a documentary about Arnhem last year (Battlefield Detectives) and amongst other things they put the Sten up against the MP40 and they came out pretty even....Infact I believe the Sten may have just edged it.

I remember they even invited a Vet along from Arnhem and he let loose a magazine down the range too. I don't recall him saying a bad word about it either.

I think something that is often overlooked is the fact the magazine is on the side which allows for a low profile in the prone posistion when loading.

However I do appreciate I'm probably in the minority here.

Cheers
Andy

Andy, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Allow me to explain why.

The Sten and the MP40 were made in roughly the same manner and yet the MP40 has the reputation for being beyond reproach. Both weapons have alarming similarities:

Both are 9mm
Both have the same magazine capacity
Both have problematic single stack magazines
Both use stamping heavily in their manufacturing process
Both have a rate of fire of roughly 500-550 rpm
Both were cheap to make

And yet ask anyone who hasn't thought about it and they will rate the MP40 and deride the Sten.

One of the Stens problems comes from its stablemates. Look at the Lee-Enfields, Brens, Thompsons etc, which are all beautifully made weapons, then take a look at the Sten. For the British soldier there was no ignoring the fact that the Sten looked and felt like it was made by the lowest bidder i.e. as cheaply as possible. Even I would find it hard to put faith in such a weapon in combat!

The Sten has a number of advantages:

It's lighter than the MP40 and considerably lighter than the Thompson.
It had a single shot mode. The MP40 did not.
It was easily broken down for storage and cleaning.
It was more accurate than a Thompson.

On this last point, the British Army conducted a test and found that the Sten could put a higher percentage of its rounds on target when comared to the 1928A1 and the M1A1 Thompson. (i'll try and dig out the source again).

In my opinion, the ones who did the Sten's reputation the most harm, was the British Tommy. They couldn't get over the fact that it was cheap. This is not something that the British Tommy is used to.

 

Recall being told by F/Sgt Instructor to watch out for the fingers of the left hand as some people lost them if they encroached upon the right hand ejector port. He also said that whenever you picked one up you should "take safety precautions, just as you would before taking a young lady out"
Les

This is why the introduced a finger guard on the Mk3 Sten.

 

Many people forget that by the 1950's many of the original faults in the Sten had been ironed out to become a sensible weapon in the same way as the PIAT which first ones issued were bloody deadly to the firer - similarly the first Churchill Tanks were issued with a long list of "adjustments" - causing the great WS in parliament to say that they had so many faults they could only be called Churchill Time heals a lot of things when the time is available which it wasn't in wartime !
Cheers

 

I think the Sten is much maligned but without it, things would not have been the same. Yes it was crude but we cannot forget that it gave the UK a rapidly expanding source of sub-machine guns at a time when they were needed most. For that, it does deserve respect.

 

OK,

I'm not a gun expert, but was the Sten a useful gun for "lefties". or was it mainly a right handed weapon?

 

I am quite sceptical as to whether they were really that bad.


I watched a documentary about Arnhem last year (Battlefield Detectives) and amongst other things they put the Sten up against the MP40 and they came out pretty even....Infact I believe the Sten may have just edged it.

I remember they even invited a Vet along from Arnhem and he let loose a magazine down the range too. I don't recall him saying a bad word about it either.

I think something that is often overlooked is the fact the magazine is on the side which allows for a low profile in the prone posistion when loading.

However I do appreciate I'm probably in the minority here.

Cheers
Andy
I work for a fellow (retired soldier) who trained with the STEN and he says the common complaints are more than substantiated. That they were prone to going off without warning. They are certainly neat but not the most reliable of firearms issued to the troops in the second world war.

 

OK,

I'm not a gun expert, but was the Sten a useful gun for "lefties". or was it mainly a right handed weapon?

There's no such thing as lefties :p

Strictly speaking, they could be used as much by southpaws as anyone else as you don't hold the mag or its housing to fire (though I understand many did just that).

However, I was under the impression that you were only ever supposed to use any weapon in a right-handed manner - can any of the veterans on her confirm that?

 

I work for a fellow (retired soldier) who trained with the STEN and he says the common complaints are more than substantiated. That they were prone to going off without warning. They are certainly neat but not the most reliable of firearms issued to the troops in the second world war.

The problem with these 'more than substantiated' complaints are that they are heard from someone who knows a guy, whose brother said an eyewitness told him it happened. The Sten has a safety catch for when the weapon isn't cocked and also has one for when the weapon IS cocked. I would suggest that if the soldier says the weapon went off 'on its own', the problem is more to do with lax firearms discipline than the weapon itself.