The Sten Gun

Just finished reading Pegasus Bridge by Stephen Ambrose. He gave the Sten a bit of a slating and I thought here we go, another reason why the USA won the war! But after comming across this thread and reading later in Ambroses book that Howards men were keen to get their hands on the german schmeissers I guess it shatters the notion of the heroic para and his trusty Sten.


Yep, the MP40 was quite a prize, Well covereted by everyone. Especailly thE britsh with the **** Sten and it using the the same ammunition.

What I find interesting about this is how badly the SMG was thought out in WW2. Not many nation managed to get it right. Started the war as almost a specialist officer or special ops weopon, with Guns like the Lanchester, the Thompson, Marlin, MP38, Beratta. Why this happened I dont understand. I guess most of these where born on the back of WW1, where fat the end of the fighting it was realised that a short range weopon was needed for trench clearing, why wasnt the lesson learnt??? I dont understand it.

I think germany had time to get it right with the MP40 and Soviets with the PPSH but by the time the Brits caught on they were forced to make that pile of poo. I guess it was better than nothing (just). THe only place the Sten was any cop was in the hads of the Maquis, where it could be broken down (or just plain broken is it) and even an illiterate French Farm boy could fix it with hammer and an arc welder.

What they should of done was built up capacity in producing Owens, which by all accounts was a decent bit of kit.

Kev

 

The Lanchester, though a pretty direct copy of the MP28 & despite it's beautiful brass finish (I want one.) is not a pre-war gun. First introduced in 1941. Same year as the Sten.


but a world away.

 

The Lanchester's build quality may have been better than the Sten's but it's negatives were just as numerous - expensive, very heavy, and still had a tendency (like the Sten) to accidentally discharge (no smutty jokes please).

Considering the lack of alternatives, the Sten did its job - what were the alternatives?

As to the lack of foresight in the development of SMGs at the beginning of the war, don't forget that most of the Europeans powers did not envisage the level of close quarters fighting that developed during the course of the war. The MP 40 was not as commonly used as the films would like us to believe. The rifle was still the king of the battlefield. The Soviets probably used the SMG most, and their philosophy was to spray any and everything with long bursts - hence their fondness for large drum magazines.

Even for paratroops and tank crews, the arguements were whether an SMG or a cutdown carbine should be issued.

 

What they should of done was built up capacity in producing Owens, which by all accounts was a decent bit of kit.
Kev

The Owen gun was simplistic and with all the progress after ww2, was still preferred by the Aussies for close fighting in Korea yet phased out during Vietnam.

The Americans actually placed orders for Owens after so many good remarks from their troops when fighting with the Aussies in the Pacific during ww2.

 

Brian,
I think the Germans were "impressed" by how simple it was to make at a time when they were at a point of collapse. It could be easily manufactured in small machine shops (or maybe in a garden shed).
Or so it says here.
MP 3008 submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was intended to arm the Volksturm, hardly crack troops.
Anything that could propel at bullet towards the enemy would do I suppose.

I think Wikipedia shows that all weapons even the MP40 had it's flaws.
I agree Owen there was a war on and no time to make beautiful things,probably a case of getting something in the field and fixing it as they go along.Bit like Mircrosoft only when dealing with firearms lives depend on it.
The poem morse supplied earlier in the thread 'Ode to the Sten' kind of sums the whole thing up.

 

The Lanchester's build quality may have been better than the Sten's but it's negatives were just as numerous - expensive, very heavy, and still had a tendency (like the Sten) to accidentally discharge (no smutty jokes please).

Considering the lack of alternatives, the Sten did its job - what were the alternatives?

As to the lack of foresight in the development of SMGs at the beginning of the war, don't forget that most of the Europeans powers did not envisage the level of close quarters fighting that developed during the course of the war. The MP 40 was not as commonly used as the films would like us to believe. The rifle was still the king of the battlefield. The Soviets probably used the SMG most, and their philosophy was to spray any and everything with long bursts - hence their fondness for large drum magazines.

Even for paratroops and tank crews, the arguements were whether an SMG or a cutdown carbine should be issued.

I think all the blowback principle SMG's could accidently discharge, but the Sten would go off if you looked at it the wrong way.

 

Hear a lot of bad reports on the Sten Gun's performance.

If there were so many problems why did they persist with it?

Was there another home grown alternative? (Lancaster?)

 

Spider,
A couple of links with information on Sten guns.
It was considered chaep and easy to produce.

Modern Firearms - STEN submachine guns

Sten submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
Tom

 

I am quite sceptical as to whether they were really that bad.


I watched a documentary about Arnhem last year (Battlefield Detectives) and amongst other things they put the Sten up against the MP40 and they came out pretty even....Infact I believe the Sten may have just edged it.

I remember they even invited a Vet along from Arnhem and he let loose a magazine down the range too. I don't recall him saying a bad word about it either.

I think something that is often overlooked is the fact the magazine is on the side which allows for a low profile in the prone posistion when loading.

However I do appreciate I'm probably in the minority here.

Cheers
Andy

 

Sten submachine gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1984, Indira Gandhi was assassinated by two of her Sikh bodyguards, one of whom emptied the entire magazine of his Sten into the Prime Minister at point-blank range.

I was really surprised to learn this.
In fairness to Andy , the Sten like most mass produce items in time of war did bring with it its fair share of problems , but as these were ironed out it probably improved and in terms of cost , what it had to do and how it did it the gun may well have been as good as any.
I would not speak as any sort of expert , those who used it / may have fired it will know best.
( Post 1100 !)

 

My Dad drove an armoured car so the logical crew personal weapon was the Sten. I seem to recall my Dad thinking it was generally OK but had problems, particularly with its spring. Apparently there was a risk that if you dropped it butt first the impact could cock the sten, not lock the bolt so the upward return could fire off a round.
Jim

 

Mate of mine had some real life experience with them, in the middle east, back in the day. I remember him saying they had a tendency to 'pull' off to one side or another. Presumably something to do with the feeding action of that side mounted magazine?

I'd guess then, therefore, that an 'AK', eg. might tend to drift upwards, or down? I've never fired anything on automatic so wouldn't know. But I think I'd prefer handling elevation creep to windage.

 

Steve G
Presumably something to do with the feeding action of that side mounted magazine?

I'd guess then, therefore, that an 'AK', eg. might tend to drift upwards, or down?


Most SMG/Assault weapons in auto mode have a tendency to rise and swing right- due primarily to the rifling. It has nothing to do with the position of the magazine. Many SMGs for example Thompson M1928 have a recuperator device at the muzzle to lessen this as does the AKM it actually compensates to above and right. Like many other weapons of this type it is better to use them only in repetition mode which will give a reasonable chance of hitting the target.

Steve

 

If there were so many problems why did they persist with it?[/quote]




They were cheap to manufacture.

 

Most SMG/Assault weapons in auto mode have a tendency to rise and swing right- due primarily to the rifling.


I see! Hey, that's excellent. Cheers I understand that perfectly. Now I'll bamboozle my gun crazy mate with that one, next time I see him

 

Picture of an AKM compensator note how the compensator allows the gas to rise exerting force downward and left.