"The Smith Gun"

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Drew5233, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. dieseltaylor

    dieseltaylor Junior Member

    One Trianco senior design engineer, recorded only as Mr Smith (about whom I would like to know more), decided that as the company had already devoted their resources to war work (their contractor code was S 411) they might as well design some form of fire support weapon. While the bulk of the Home Guard’s immediate small arms requirements were being met by mass purchases from the USA, the prospects for anything resembling field artillery would remain bleak for many months to come. That was where Mr Smith decided to act and his prototype gun emerged as early as July 1940.
    Read the full article in the March/April 2011 issue of the Armourer


    Perhaps you should contatc Terry Gander with the info he requires : )
     
  2. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    I thought I would try to cancel out some of the mis-information circulating as a result of confusion between the names Trianco & Triang.

    The misinformation MIGHT also come from something other than the similarity in their names...

    Tri-ang toys were aimed at the children from working homes and were always competitively priced and brightly coloured. Lines Bros Ltd thought big and achieved their good prices through large scale and efficient manufacture, with factories all over the world. During the second war, Lines Bros factories made munitions and were reputedly able to teach the MOD how to organise production speedily and with high outputs. Lines Bros engineers developed the 'Sten' gun which saw extensive war use.
    (The Tri-ang Society)


    They were both in the same line (sic) of business!

    (Triang also diversified greatly after the war into more than just model trains - they took over the pram company Simpson Fawcett in 1957, for example, and manufactured bicycles/tricycles under the Triang name.)
     
  3. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    That quote is pushing the case somewhat. The Sten was developed by Shepherd and Turpin (the "S" and "T" in STEN) working at RSAF Enfiled.

    The great innovation that Lines Brothers made was to used sheet steel rolled around a mandrel and seam welded for the receiver instead of the more expensive tube. This was the Mark III Sten with its distinctive long receiver covering the barrel and Lines made about 850,000 of them at Merton. That site is about half a mile from where I sit and I remember the factory well.

    In addition to the Sten, Lines made parts for Brens, Lanchesters, No.4s and 20mm Hispanos. They also used their expertise in die casting to make a series of cheap drill rounds in 9mmP, .30-06 and .45ACP. There are similar 20mm drill rounds probably made by them as well.

    Regards
    TonyE
     

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  4. cartoss

    cartoss Junior Member

    The RAF Regiment museum also have an example of the Smith Gun along with some deactivated rounds, but no limber. I work closely with the museum and will be displaying it on their behalf at various locations over the summer. It will be at Crich Tramway Museum over the easter weekend.
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought I'd post this from a couple of emails we had in the admin email account.

    With regard to your piece on the Smith Gun. The 'Expert' on the Antiques Road Show got it wrong. It was invented by Major W. H. Smith of the Trianco Works in Thames Ditton, NOT Triang Toys. He was a local inventor and entrepeneur who also invented the collapsable pallet to drop heavy equipment from aircraft.


    As a follow on to my last EMail I have just read to the last message of the site. Please make it clear to your readers that The Trianco Company made boilers NOT Toys. It got its name from Maj. Smiths first invention, The Triangular Brick. A building medium cast in triangular shape on site and used as a brick. It was supposed to be a stronger medium. It wasnt, as it was hollow its transferred any damp to the top of the building. Not one of his successful inventions. But then nor was the Smith Gun.
    Again it was NOT made by a toy company and certainly not Triang.
    Most of the other info seems OK and very detailed. Sorry to nag but that chap on the Antiques Show seemed to be making assumptions on the only name he knew.
     
  6. Sapper1

    Sapper1 Junior Member

    I recently visited Fort Nelson and was interested by the Smith Gun and have since tried to find out more information. Does anyone know how it was loaded? I could not work out any breech mechanism.
     
  7. leccy

    leccy Senior Member

    I recently visited Fort Nelson and was interested by the Smith Gun and have since tried to find out more information. Does anyone know how it was loaded? I could not work out any breech mechanism.

    Post 5 has a pic of the Smith Gun and mentions the breech being open in it.
     
  8. Tammy Spiller

    Tammy Spiller Junior Member

    During a live firing practice in that year a malfunction caused an explosion which killed Corporal Maynard of 2819 Squadron. Other such incidents soon followed and after a very unsatisfactory operational performance, and a worse safety record, in squadron service, all Smith guns were withdrawn from Regiment units in 1943.”

    And here are Cpl Maynard’s details.

    Name:-MAYNARD, CECIL EDWARD
    Initials:-C E
    Nationality:-United Kingdom
    Rank:-Corporal
    Regiment/Service:-Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text:-2819 Sqdn. R.A.F. Regt.
    Age:-34
    Date of Death:-10/12/1942
    Service No:-1308065
    Additional information:-Son of Fredrick and Martha Maynard, of Reading; husband of Violet May Maynard, of Reading.
    Casualty Type:-Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference:-Div. 59. Grave 15529.
    Cemetery:-READING CEMETERY

    I would just like to say how heart warming it is for me to read about Corporal Cecil Maynard.

    I am Cecil Maynards great grand child, and due to the fact my nan (his daughter) only being a few years old at the time, information regarding my grand father is very thin.

    I think I remember for memory that the training excercise was carried out on a beach in Norfolk. Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything to back this up. Do you have an idea on the best place to look?

    Thanks Tammy x
     
  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    A message to the Great-Nephew of Major Smith, who contacted by email today:
    I can't send to the address you submitted (maybe a form transcription error, keep being bounced from the server as 'unknown recipient'), so I'll post my reply here, hopefully you'll pick it up:

    As the 'Contact Us' link only comes through to site Admin, might I suggest you register (for free) here:
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/register.php
    That way you can quiz the far more knowledgeable membership directly.

    Quite a few of 'em are serious WW1-heads too, and would likely know the best places to enquire re. your specific query.

    Cheers,
    ~Adam.
     
  10. James S

    James S Very Senior Member

    Good thread gents , something new to me. :)
     
  11. jeffbubble

    jeffbubble Senior Member

    Smiths Gun Demo to PM.
     

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  12. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    I would just like to say how heart warming it is for me to read about Corporal Cecil Maynard.

    I am Cecil Maynards great grand child, and due to the fact my nan (his daughter) only being a few years old at the time, information regarding my grand father is very thin.

    I think I remember for memory that the training excercise was carried out on a beach in Norfolk. Unfortunately I have been unable to find anything to back this up. Do you have an idea on the best place to look?

    Thanks Tammy x

    Tammy

    Wonderful to hear from someone actually connected with the events! And sorry for not replying to your post - I've been otherwise engaged - but I hope you are still around.

    I have no more information about Cpl Maynard but the operations record book for his squadron might have more on this. I say "might" because some of these ORBs can be brief to the point of, well, pointlessness. Some, however, give a lot of information.

    The National Archives will have the ORBs for the squadron. The file is AIR 29/105 - The National Archives | The Catalogue | Full Details | AIR 29/105.

    You might also want to check the Appendix to the ORBs - AIR 29/108 - Detecting your browser settings

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  13. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi,

    See RAF Regiment Museum | Pictures from RAF Honington

    "Entered Service with the RAF Regt in 1942 and was designed by Mr Smith (Chief Engineer) of Trianco (The Toy Company).

    The Smooth bore gun fired a cast iron exploding projectile or a 3 inch mortar bomb.

    The Smith Gun was never fired in anger by The RAF Regt and was obsolete by 1945."

    Photograph copyright "The RAF Regiment Museum"

    Looks and sounds like very dodgy weapon to fire.

    It could be tipped on it's side and then pulled/towed with the round edges acting as wheels.


    Regards, Mick D.
     

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  14. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi Drew5233,

    Thanks for that.

    I'll do more detailed searches :)

    Regards, Mick D.
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Don't worry about it Mick-It happens all the time, especially to me :)
     
  16. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Mick - not 'alf as dangerous to the users as the Blacker Bombard apparently was! :(
     
  17. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi phylo_roadking,

    The "Blacker Bombard" I wont google it, but wait for comments.

    Regards, Mick D.
     
  18. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    lol it was a spigot mortar (later it morphed into the Hedgehog" for ASW) that came with concrete-headed projectiles for training...that had a mind of their own. I remember reading a few years ago about one training accident where a concrete round went astray and bowled over a row of Home Guard recruits like skittles - killing two and maiming a third!
     
  19. rockape252

    rockape252 Senior Member

    Hi phylo_roadking,

    Thanks for that info, sounds a downright bloody dangerous bit of kit.

    Hedgehogs as used in the Normandy landing bombardment ?

    Regards, Mick D
     
  20. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

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