The Sikhs in the British Army thread.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=986 summary="" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD width=19></TD><TD width=618>Sikh regiment dumped over 'racism' fears


By Sean Rayment, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:35am BST 24/06/2007


<!--NO VIEW-->

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Defence chiefs have abandoned plans to raise a regiment of British Sikhs amid fears that the move would be branded racist.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=427 align=right border=0 hspace="0"><TBODY><TR><TD width=8 rowSpan=2></TD><TD width=419><CENTER></CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption><CENTER>The Indian Army's Sikh Regiment, which was formed in 1846

</CENTER>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The proposal to create the regiment, reminiscent of those that fought for Britain in the two world wars, was dropped by the Ministry of Defence after discussions with the Commission for Racial Equality (CRE).
Sikh leaders had informed Army recruitment officers that they could easily find enough volunteers to form a 700-strong regiment. However, despite the infantry being under strength by 3,000 soldiers, the offer was rejected.
Lieutenant General Sir Freddie Viggers, the Adjutant General with responsibility for recruitment, is understood to have accepted the argument put forward by race commissioners at the CRE that creating a Sikh regiment would be divisive and amounted to "segregation".
Leaders of Britain's 500,000 Sikhs were supportive of the idea of a new regiment, arguing that it would be no different from the Scots, Welsh and Irish Guards or the Royal Gurkha Rifles, which recruits exclusively from Nepal and which is regarded as a model infantry regiment.
The decision to shelve the plans was last night criticised by politicians, members of the Sikh community and soldiers, who claimed that the Army had fallen victim to political correctness.
Kuljit Singh Gulati, the general secretary of the Sikh Temple in Shepherd's Bush, west London, said: "The Sikhs have a long and distinguished heritage of serving with the British Army.
"I know there are many, many Sikhs who would join up and would serve wherever required. But if you want to get them in large numbers they need their own regiment, something they would take a huge amount of pride in.
"They would regard it as very prestigious. It is a shame that it now looks as though it will never happen."
A senior Army officer said: "The MoD has missed a golden opportunity in not tapping into the Sikh community's desire to form a regiment. It's nonsense to suggest this would amount to segregation and since when did the CRE dictate Britain's defence -policy?"
The decision will also dismay Prince Charles, who has expressed an interest in the creation of dedicated units to boost the number of people from ethnic minorities in the services and to harness the military tradition of the Sikh faith in particular.
Last year, the armed forces were ordered to meet tough targets to recruit more men and women from ethnic minorities.
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "The creation of a Sikh Regiment has been considered by the Army policy staff responsible for both equality and diversity issues, who went on to consult with the Commission for Racial Equality.
"Both agreed that grouping ethnic minorities runs counter to the Armed Forces philosophy that seeks to include, not exclude, and extend opportunities."
A CRE spokesman said: "We would not support any policy that seeks to isolate specific groups in the Armed Forces or wider society.
"The creation of a separate regiment according to ethnicity would be segregation, which amounts to discrimination under the Race Relations Act. Anything that creates separation between regiments can only have a detrimental effect upon our Armed Forces' operational effectiveness."

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Thanks David. I shan't repeat what a lot of Indians have been saying about the CRE lately but it isn't complimentary. Let's just say that it is seen as being ethnocentric in its own way, and not not currently representative of ALL ethnicities. And that's just a polite interpretation!

 

The CRE is who are doing more to create disharmony in this country than before. That close enough Kyt?

Create the Sikh regiment then give any Sikh recruit the choice of joining this or a different regiment within the British Army.

 

Surely with "eyes closed" there is no difference between a Regiment of Scots, a Regiment of Sikhs or a Regiment of Ghurkas.

 

Surely with "eyes closed" there is no difference between a Regiment of Scots, a Regiment of Sikhs or a Regiment of Ghurkas.

Absolutely none - they're all beserkers, and I'd definately have my 'eyes closed' with any one of them around (and a spare pair of underpants too)!

 

once more the army has to make do with less men all because it might be thought racist to raise an ethnic regiment.

 

Of course it's discrimination. But it's positive discrimination. I'd be honoured to serve in a Sikh regiment! Together with the Gurkha's and a select few more they have the finest military reputatons in the world. Uraaaa to them!

 

Individual cases aren't exactly indicative, are they?

In the British Armed Forces, there are only approxiamately 100 Sikhs across the three services:

Defence Internet | Defence News | First Tri-Service Sikh conference takes place

as oppossed to their prior service:

A Gateway to Sikhism

As pointed out by others, if a group has a military heritage, then why not give it a go?

 

I see your point Owen, but why not have the Sikh Regiment which would actively encourage Sikh's into the Army. After all we had them before so why not again? From that encourage men and officers to be attached to other regiments and vice versa to allow the full integration properly, but still giving the Sikh recruits the choice of joining this or a general regiment.
Your argument could also stand for the Ghurkas I'm afraid.

 

I may be mistaken, but I recently read that in some Nordic country when the police issue a wanted suspect description, they omit the skin colour and other racial features! So they describe the suspect as 1.70m tall, 65kg, lame in the left leg, but no idea if the felon is white or black or asian or whatever! Saying he's blonde, brown, red, etc. is racial profiling

 

Actually, I'd like to see a Sikh in a Scottish regiment. I think a turban and kilt would go well together

Just like the dhol and the bagpipes do:

YouTube - Dhol with Bag Pipes


Portrait Of The New Asian Scots At National Library Of Scotland - 24 Hour Museum - official guide to UK museums, galleries, exhibitions and heritage

 

As pointed out by others, if a group has a military heritage, then why not give it a go?

The Counties of England fulfill this criterion but it hasn't stopped successive governments from dismantling the system of County Regiments. (Sailor Heath even tried to do away with most of the Counties !)

 

Interestingly, the US military does not allow Sikhs to enlist due to their religious requirements for wearing the turban, having a beard, and long hair. Their reasoning is that these are incompatable with military requirements for wearing helments of various sorts, wearing CBR gear particularly the gas mask (a beard makes getting a seal impossible), and general grooming requirements.

 

What a load of PC bulldust i would welcome a Sikh Regiment just i would welcome an Aboriginal Regiment here in Australia, i cant see any rascism here. Shame on the PC Nazis, and shame on the British Military for its gutless approach.

 

I'm going to ask a silly question:

Why can't he wear the bearskin over the turban. Harbhajan Singh bats with a helmet on.