The Sherman Tank what an amazing vehicle!!

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by kfz, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Phillistines! "I come here to praise Caesar, not to bury him!" :D

    Miguel,

    I'm beginning to think that you and Adam are on retainer to General Motors, Public Relations Div. :D
     
  2. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    In reality, if comments contained in the attached link are reliable, "the production of the Sherman tank reached its zenith in the 2nd quarter of 1943 after which output fell significantly - plunging to less than 1/3 the peak rate in the first quarter of 1944. If you aggregate the production of German Mk IV, Mk V and Mk VI tanks for the corresponding period you will see that Germany was producing almost exactly the same number of those tanks as the U.S. "designed for mass-production" Shermans!"


    You have production targets.
    You want enough tanks to equip your '100 Division ' Army.
    Then you need to fulfill LL Contracts.
    After that is accomplished there is no need to keep making 1000's of 'spare' tanks so you slacken off production.
    The USA was able to provide all the tanks it needed.
    Germany was never able to produce all the tanks she needed.
     
  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    You have production targets.
    You want enough tanks to equip your '100 Division ' Army.
    Then you need to fulfill LL Contracts.
    After that is accomplished there is no need to keep making 1000's of 'spare' tanks so you slacken off production.
    The USA was able to provide all the tanks it needed.
    Germany was never able to produce all the tanks she needed.

    Unless you are the USN. They made hay while the sun shown and went on producing far more ships in 44 and 45 then they knew they would ever need. Scandalous, in my opinion.

    Dave
     
  4. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Confucius said: "You can never have too much of a good thing." :D
     
  5. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Confucius said: "You can never have too much of a good thing." :D

    May West said it better, "Too much of a good thing is wonderful."

    Senator Everett Dirksen's saying might be applicable as well, "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're talking real money".

    Dave
     
  6. Jen'sHusband

    Jen'sHusband Punchbag

    Za

    Don't forget our Kangaroos had the sides built up for extra protection.

    Be a good man and find us some pics :)

    Ron

    A bit like this, Ron?


    Dan
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    That's what I was looking for, degunned M7 Priest self-propelled guns to work as Kangaroos, humorously known as Defrocked Priests (I kid you not) :)

    Thanks Fruitcake!
     
  8. Jen'sHusband

    Jen'sHusband Punchbag

    You're welcome.

    Does anyone know what drivers were employed to move these things?

    Were they RAC/RAC trained?
     
  9. cbiwv

    cbiwv Junior Member

    Such a long thread for a mediocre piece of equipment.
     
  10. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    cbiwv,
    I agree to some extent but if I were you I would take cover. Deep.
    Several feet deep. Under sandbags. And if you can find it some Chobham armour!

    But to be honest where would we have been in WW2 without it?
     
  11. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    cbiwv,
    I agree to some extent but if I were you I would take cover. Deep.
    Several feet deep. Under sandbags. And if you can find it some Chobham armour!

    But to be honest where would we have been in WW2 without it?
    :peepwalla:


    :lol: It does sometimes take balls to state the obvious.
     
  12. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    And what was the better medium?
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It does sometimes take balls to state the obvious.
    Particularly if the stater apparently can't be bothered to read through the thread. :unsure:

    Two quotes from the beginning and end of Zaloga's excellent 'Armoured Thunderbolt', a recent and exceptionally well-informed book.
    (Mr Zaloga's resume is one of professional consultation in defence research relating to Tanks, as well as a long line in respected military history publications)

    First Paragraph in the book:
    "When I was growing up in the 1950s, the Sherman Tank was regularly portrayed in the press & on TV as one of the great war-winning weapons of World war II. a half-century later, this image has been completely reversed ... So which is it: death trap or war winner?"

    And from the final chapter, before the appendixes:
    "The Introduction of this book asked the question of whether the Sherman Tank was a war-winner or a death trap. As this book has suggested, neither of these two answers does the subject justice, and the real answer must be more nuanced.
    The characterization of the Sherman as a death trap and the task of it's crews as suicide missions is the most easily dismissed. No tank in combat, even the vaunted Tiger, was invulnerable. Much of the condemnation of the Sherman stems from the shoddy sensationalism of television documentaries over the past decade and similar exaggerations in books and magazines."

    He then goes on to cover those nuances, in relation to doctrine, usage, and industrial factors (before finally concluding 'good enough') but I can only agree with the basic thrust.

    (If anyone can't face the price of Hunnicutt admission, and wants to read one of the more serious books yet published on Sherman, I'd heartily recommend Zaloga's - not because it confirms my own viewpoint, but because it is a serious and objective appraisal that stands head and shoulders above some other popular titles of the last few decades. Cheap too, less than £20 on Abe. )

    But to be honest where would we have been in WW2 without it?
    Quite. And a question those that take the easy dismissal route seem almost entirely unable to answer without a more objective and convincing counter being presented.
     
  14. johnabcitizen

    johnabcitizen Junior Member

    The Sherman Tank had many deficiencies as has already be made.The point in in favour of it was that they kept on coming, such was the US production programme.

    It would be wrong to identity the Sherman as an amazing vehicle,that title belongs to the best battle tank of the Second World War, the T34.The Hun was more fearful of this tank than any other Allied tank.Straight off the production track to the battlefield without the normal cosmetic finishing, such was the urgency.
    This, along with the IS2 and later derivatives of the T-34. Sure, it was a good tank, but not THAT good.
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  16. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

  17. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    This, along with the IS2 and later derivatives of the T-34. Sure, it was a good tank, but not THAT good.

    Timig, timing, timing. When the T-34 showed up in June 1941 it forced the Germans to revise the armament on their own tanks to match it, so it was indeed the standard to achieve. As I said before, more or less the same for the Sherman in North Africa. After that, arguably not the absolutely best tanks in the world (depending on the criteria you set for the term "best"), but certainly nice to have and in large numbers.

    Oh, also remember that the T-34 was the prime motive for the PzKfw V requirement, so the Germans must have looked at it at least twice.

    Such a long thread for a mediocre piece of equipment.

    Thank you for your nice and enlightening contribution that has so greatly enhanced the forum collective knowledge base.
     
  18. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Thank you for your nice and enlightening contribution that has so greatly enhanced the forum collective knowledge base.

    I think he made his point rather succinctly and effectively. Actually, a long dissertation would have undermined the message he was delivering. I don't think someone's opinion should have a word count minimum.
     
  19. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    But to be honest where would we have been in WW2 without it?

    The same could be said of my 1973 Pontiac Astre. Where would I have been without it? Cheap transportation for a teenager, to and from school for 4 years.
    But, having said that, it was really a nondescript vehicle and just about any other model would have done as well. It suited my purposes at the time and it was readily available, but that, in and of itself, does not confer any particular greatness.
     
  20. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    The greatest composer of the Baroque was Johannes Kepler.

    There you are. It's the truth because I said so, no justification needed.
     
    Slipdigit likes this.

Share This Page