The Murder of Five Captured RAF Officers. Warning: Graphic Images

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Drew5233, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Looking through the Bomber Command Newsletter of Autumn 2006,I came across Tony Iveson's tribute to Squadron Leader Wyness and his crew who were murdered when their Lancaster was forced to ditch in the Rhine after the raid on the Kembs Dam on 7 October 1944.Tony Iveson was on the same raid and witnessed the fate of Wyness's aircraft.

    Apparently,the perpetrator Gruner after being apprehended,was tried by a war criminal court,sentenced to death and handed to the Americans.He escaped in 1947 and was never recaptured.

  2. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    Has anyone ever attempted an estimate as to the number of RAF and Commonwealth airmen murdered after surviving being shot down?
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I copied another 10 files today related to RAF and RCAF murders including a FO PP Bosco 61 Squadron, RCAF.
  4. noman

    noman Member

  5. noman

    noman Member

  6. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member


    I found this site where searching various details on 617 Kembs Barrage Raid Oct 7,1944

    As such would like to follow up an older thread due new evidences which recently popped up . I live several miles away from Kembs Barrage and the crash sites
    of Sq/Ldr Wyness and Fl/Lt Howard crews. There are no memorials whatsoever in place nor any clear coordinates as into the crash sites . Maybe some one could
    help me with more details :

    1. At which British Museum ( please specify ) is Sqn Ldr Drew Rothwell Cullen Wyness wreck exhibited ? According information from numerous sources
    parts of the wreck were brought back in 1946 from France or Germany to UK then taken to Royal Aircraft Est.Farnborough .

    2. Are there any coordinates of Sq/Ldr Wyness & Fl/lt Howard crash sites because the earlier reports such Chalampe France were not correct neither that crew bodies were
    recovered 50 miles away by US troops at Tulou . Howard did crash indeed at Efringen Kirchen but where exactly ? The single proven fact is that 4 crew members were executed
    by Hugo Gruenner at Rhinewiler , then thrown on Rhine river . The remaining 3 were executed elsewhere by the Germans.Gruenner indeed escaped prior execution with
    insiders help and arrived in Argentina where he died in 1977 or 1976 , when his family in Germany finally declared his death .

    2. Any idea on where could I get all Kembs Raid participants photos ?

    Alex K
  7. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Hi Alex,

    You may want to obtain the following report from TNA: Schliengen, Germany: killing of allied airmen, crew of Lancaster bomber taking part in... | The National Archives

    Utilizing their copy service you will likely go broke.

    Two of the members of this forum will photograph the file for a fraction of what TNA charges. I have used both their services and can highly recommend them.


    ozzy16 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  8. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member


    Many thanks , I am new to this forum and I am tight up right now with establishing the blog I have no idea
    who are they and on how I could get in touch with them

    Best Regards
    Alex K
  9. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

    I live near Kembs Barrage ,my latest research on Kembs Raid clearly indicates that the 3 survivors were which were far from reaching Swiss bank ( there is NO Swiss bank at Rhineweiler but French) were not machine gunned .

    They were arrested by Gestapo on French bank alerted by Gruenner and Meissner probably executed as "agents " at concentration camp Natzweiler-Struthof in Alsace then cremated .

    That is why their remains were never found .

    Murderer " Hugo Gruener "
    Murder of Sq.Ldr.Drue R.C.Whyness & Crew

    Alex K
  10. JTailo

    JTailo New Member

    I am new to posting on Forums and hope this is of help to the active users of this section. My uncle, W/cdr. John Wynne died on 19th November and his funeral is today, Friday 30th November. The Daily Mail has published an article about him in today's edition. I am unfortunately unable to attend his funeral as I am currently away from home in Canada. As someone earlier in the posts remarked, this dreadful event all those years ago and the subsequent reconciliation should be made into a book - or even a documentary. The BBC broadcast 'A Rocking Horse Called Hope' many years ago.
    RIP Uncle John I will always remember him as a wonderful uncle and Gentleman.
    Rich Payne, 17thDYRCH and canuck like this.
  11. canuck

    canuck Token Colonial Patron

    A nice tribute and welcome to Canada.
    17thDYRCH likes this.
  12. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

  13. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

    Murdered at Pforzheim 1945

    Attached Files:

  14. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

    Someone on here promised me to access the archives at no cost two months ago and after returning from vacation
    contribute with this material my Kembs memorial Blog . Though this was just a promise one of many you hear all the
    time on the Net
  15. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I have the file - the particular file on this thread has no particular information on it other than a letter from the Luftwaffe bemoaning the execution of the prisoners on intelligence gathering grounds. If you search this forum you will find thread mentioning lots of other more relevant files on this case, some of which are posted. The front of the file I copied references two of them.

    In future keeping the bitching to PM - if you had I might have copied these other ones for free.

    Drew5233 likes this.
  16. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

    I did not address my Q to you nor I need this file you posted or any other
    nor I was in contact with you before for this type of material but completely something
    else. Your worthless rude remarks are typical for those spending all day on the Net
    keen to jump the gun and offend out of the blue skies , bye

    PS : Material promised to me was Kembs Recon footage of 627 Sqd !
  17. alex kandel

    alex kandel Member

    Also, I am not going stay in a forum manned by rude people , so if the admin seeing
    this msg please delete my account !
  18. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    Bullsh*t. I contacted you saying if you wanted the file copying I’d do next time I was down at Kew. I only go in my spare time and try and help out people who want single or part files - on my last trip I copied files for 5 people in this forum, all free.

    I copied this file last week but rather than just PMing me asking if I had time you posted some crap about ‘promises’ ‘net’ etc.

    You could have got these files copied for free, out of my willingness to help for free. You’ve blown that - if you want files from now on pay for them. I’m beginning to understand why people don’t do this for free...
  19. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    It's a pity that this interesting and informative thread has come to this.

    Per Ardua ad Astra
  20. rogcal

    rogcal Junior Member

    Prompted by the obituary for Wing Commander John Wynn in today's Daily Telegraph, I Googled his name in search of more information on the events of some 73 years ago and lighted upon this discussion in a forum I haven't visited for some years.

    A most informative discussion with in depth details which I have found most informative and in many respects a lasting tribute to not only the airman involved but to all those that risked their lives in those far off days.

    To echo what Harry Ree has said "It's a pity that this interesting and informative thread has come to this".

    Thank you to all that contributed to this story.

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