The Italians in Afghanistan

I have just finished reading "Ground Truth" by Patrick Bishop about 3 Para in Afghanistan.

Page 95 says about a French force taking over an area from Italians who "According to a report in The Times in October 2009 had been paying the local taliban to leave them alone."

I thought this was crazy however, on considering the Italian approach to WW2 I guess it is (Only slightly) better than changing sides!!!

 

Would really like to know the details of that story, my suspicion is that there is a lot of money going to the local warlords to "persuade" them to cooperate towards the NATO goals, that's always been a way of dealing with tribal cultures and I very much doubt it's not in widespread use.

Many "talibans" are just bandits, on the other hand I can't see the real fanatics accepting bribes. Italian losses, compared to numbers committed, and considering they have not been committed to the hottest sectors, seem to be around average so I strongly doubt they get "special treatement" from the guerrillas.

 

I think this may be a case of calling everyone who carries a AK47 a member of the Taliban which couldn't be further from the truth.

If the Italians are paying 'protection money' and the like I can assure you they aren't the only country doing this - It happened in Iraq too and probably still does.

 

.

 

Even the 'old' Romans, in ancient times, dealt in this way with the tribes along their frontiers, didn't they. Persuading them with gifts of prestige goods (such as wine, glasswork and jewelry). This worked fine, at least for some time.

"supporting" some local chiefs is a time honored, and effective, tactic widely used throughout history, IIRC golden sovereigns were in large demand even after WW2 as many "chieftains" would not accept paper money. When it works it's a lot more cost effective than a military presence, but it may fire back spectacularly, historically a lot of revolts were led by the very leaders that had been "bought", the well know joke about honest politicians applies in full.

 

It is not protection money. The local warlords has to be bribed to enable operations. It really irritates me when newsies take a cheap shot at professional soldiers from their comfy office just to sell more papers.

 

It is not protection money. The local warlords has to be bribed to enable operations. It really irritates me when newsies take a cheap shot at professional soldiers from their comfy office just to sell more papers.

Thats what the original article posted by WW2ni says mate:
"According to a report in The Times in October 2009 had been paying the local taliban to leave them alone."

 

Drew
Paying to be left alone is not the same thing as enabling operations.

Afganistan is nothing like our "neat" organised societies, and without the goodwill of the resident warlord or cheif you get to do sod all.

This is not goolie chits (basically the gold sovreigs you used to give to the natives to keep your balls between your legs, not in your mouth in the morning)

The pride or status of the warlord or cheiftain must be maintained, if not it is an insult to the entire community. Think of it in terms of Lawrence of Arabia (They always show it during christmas over here) "You're not going to Aquba for the gold, your going because it pleases you" (near enough)

In our officer training relating to these characters is starting to take up a lot of time. Our intel people have to sift through the info we get from these critters to determine if it is hard info or if the good warlord is getting even with a decendant of somebody who stole a goat from his great grandfather.

cheers

 

if you want people to change their ways, you need to facilitate that change

its a 'hearts and minds' thing. if you want people to stop growing a money crop like heroin poppies, then you have to give them equipment etc to aid that

All nations involved in this 'war/peace keeping initiative' pay monies and give equipment and assistance in one form or another

 

Drew
Paying to be left alone is not the same thing as enabling operations.


Hi,

Yes it is - Here's some money (or whatever they want, allowing the cultivation of Opium was a popular one too some time ago) so now leave us alone so we can do our job.

I'm well aware of how it works too thanks but not from a classroom as a student.


All nations involved in this 'war/peace keeping initiative' pay monies and give equipment and assistance in one form or another

Amen to that Bill, God knows how much we did on Telic 1 and they still weren't happy

Regards
Andy

 

I have just finished reading "Ground Truth" by Patrick Bishop about 3 Para in Afghanistan.

I got to about page 70 and didn't read any more......that's my opinion of the book..found it biased!

 

I got to about page 70 and didn't read any more......that's my opinion of the book..found it biased!


Just out of curiosity -'In what way?' I've not read the book (I tend not to read modern British Army Op books unless I can relate to it personally), just interested in your opinion.

Cheers
Andy

 

Just out of curiosity -'In what way?' I've not read the book (I tend not to read modern British Army Op books unless I can relate to it personally), just interested in your opinion

The book is about 3 Para.

 

The book is about 3 Para.

I was probably looking for a study of their time without the political/comparative perspective.

 

Gold sovs. & Lee Enfields were freely distributed throughout the tribal areas of what was then the Aden protectorate in the 1960's by British "political officers". Can't see what good it did long term though, but then I don't do politics.