Hello Chaps, I met some Irish (South) battlefield pilgrims yesterday; they wanted to know where the Munster Cross was so took them to see it. I'm not sure if they were winding me up, however whilst searching for some names on the Menin Gate register for them they pointed out that the name 'Aherne' that they were looking for was with an 'e' rather than 'Ahern' without. They said that during the famine Irish people that were starving but wanted the free soup from protestant soup kitchens that they had to renounce their faith. The same goes for people that dropped the 'O' for example in 'O'Sullivan'. Have you ever heard of this, I was suspicious but was not prepared to have a row over it!
I have heard of this but only in as an anecdote. I wonder if census data goes back that far to see if there is a noticable shift in names. Even if it is an urban myth, if people believe it to be true they will argue their point anyway!
I have to say I tread lightly whenever talking to anyone with Irish descent, North or South. They have a great verbal history and as such truth, myth and exageration can get minged together and served up as fact though to be honest, what little I do know of true Irish history, it doesnt need any "bigging up". And I say this with utmost respect.
I was given some stick about the rugby, however as my Gt grandfather was from Cork I could claim plastic Paddy status!
Hello Chaps, I met some Irish (South) battlefield pilgrims yesterday; they wanted to know where the Munster Cross was so took them to see it. I'm not sure if they were winding me up..........They said that during the famine Irish people that were starving but wanted the free soup from protestant soup kitchens that they had to renounce their faith.......The same goes for people that dropped the 'O' for example in 'O'Sullivan'. It is true that in those dark days some converted to Protestantism for food assistance and were given the derogatory title of "Soupers". The association with spellings of names is one I've never heard of and I don't think is true. My name is Duffy (O'Dufaigh in Gaelic) - most Irish names are like this in that the O' or 'Mac' was dropped as a general anglicisation of the Gaelic form and isn't as recent as the Famine (1840's). I also had a childhood friend whose surname was O'Bierne and he was Protestant. So .... soup yes .... name change ... no
I agree with Drumaneen, my married name has dropped the 'O' but this may just be as other names have changed over the years in spelling and pronounciation. However the family were reputedly 'soup-ers' ... a practical solution to starvation and nothing to be ashamed of.
My family name on my father's side does have two different spellings, connected to how much Jewishness that family branch might wish to show. Have to be smart to keep alive in an Inquisition country
Just a bit about spelling of surnames and their variations. It all depended on how someone wanted their name spelt, how literate they were themselves, how much of an accent they had, and how careful any clerk was when recording same. A lot of names didn't have a correct way to spell them esp. when the general population wasn't too concerned with literacy or spoke a different mother tongue. For example see how many migrants to US had their names changed simply because those processing them weren't familiar with them, and so ended up with official albeit incorrect versions of their names. My grandmother's surname and its variations bear no resemblance in written form to that of her direct ancestors; yet when spoken, the derivation can be heard. Both my maiden and married surnames are regularly mis-spelt by others. One thing I very much have in common with those who share my maiden name is the insistence now on the correct spelling to distinguish from a more frequently used variation.
SOREN my grandfather also originated from CORK ..my son as traced our family back to my g.grandfather born 1832 and the O prior to CONNELL had disapeared with his name ..its strange though when i have visited IRELAND i was always addressed as MR O.CONNELL.
The Genealogist Speaks ..... I've spent the last several years trying my damnbdest to help my cousin, an O' Leary, to find so much as even her infernal Father! I'm not that bad at this game. But, Nothing! We were chasing our tails around. People she'd physically known and met were simply not on Any official records. The Registrars offices were busting their guts trying to help find them. Nothing! Only last week I got an e mail from Chris'. I couldn't possibly repeat it's header here! Guess what? Her father ~ I imagine? I haven't had time to study it yet ~ had 'replaced' the " O "! Now she has Leary kin coming out of her ears! Reading the above posts? I'll be wryly waiting for the time we trace her people back to the point where they suddenly reappear as their original " O' Leary ". Thanks for adding to my sum knowledge as a Genealogist, peeps!
Oh dear. My paternal ancestry is originally from Ireland and I was hoping to get over there at some point to do some research but this name change possibility has dampened my spirits a little. Can anyone advise if the Longs ever had/dropped the O' prefix? Believe family was from the Republic, not NI.
Oh dear. My paternal ancestry is originally from Ireland and I was hoping to get over there at some point to do some research but this name change possibility has dampened my spirits a little. Can anyone advise if the Longs ever had/dropped the O' prefix? Believe family was from the Republic, not NI. Mike, I think you might be on safer ground. I dont think Long ever had an "O" preceding it. I never had this problem as my surname is Norman and was unconnected with the Gaelic ancestry.
Thanks for that Gotthard, so I might be going for a pint of the 'Liffy water' at some point yet. Mike
Mike, I think you might be on safer ground. I dont think Long ever had an "O" preceding it. I never had this problem as my surname is Norman and was unconnected with the Gaelic ancestry. So no escapades with the locals behind the round tower? :p
Just to muddy the waters a wee bit but it's only O for the sons but Ni for the daughters. As you can imagine, they mean son off and daughter off. Pretty much like Von in German and De in French but gender specific. As to people being forced to change their names to receive charity it's total tosh! There's an awful lot of oral tosh floating around in Ireland and all of it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Stuff like Cromwell's slaughter of Drogheda simply didn't happen as it is promoted and if anyone can find me a tenured Professor of Irish History at an Irish University that says it did I shall give you a tenner. As I say the Irish love to talk but don't believe a word any of them tells you...even if it's true you can bet half-a-Guiness that the teller is putting his own gloss on it with each and every word....it's simply part of the culture...it's meant to entertain not to inform! We used to have a Baron Von Munchausen competition in my home town in Ireland but we had to give it up because we couldn't agree on the winner or stop people from telling stories long enough to judge the competition!
My family name on my father's side does have two different spellings, connected to how much Jewishness that family branch might wish to show. Have to be smart to keep alive in an Inquisition country So, that makes you a decendent of the "Conversos", eh?
