The German Jagdtiger

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by montgomery, Oct 31, 2006.

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  1. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Hi all,

    What was the design impetus for the Jagertiger? Did it have any practical advantages over the Elephant? Also, what could the Jagertiger, Elephant or King Tiger do that the Tiger I couldn't do almost as well? I know how the 'Big Three' differ technically from the the Tiger I and from each other but they always seemed kind of redundant to me.

    I've been meaning to post this one here for a long time and seeing the thread bump gave me a chance. :)

    Nice movie, VP

    Thanks,

    Dave
     
    Dave55, Jul 30, 2012
    #41
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It was all about that 12.8 gun, Dave.
    The 8.8s on Tiger, Elefant etc. were, of course, excellent guns, but there was always an awareness of the arms race in Germany (some may say possibly too much awareness, often driven by Hitler or attempts to please him). German doctrine was happy with non-turreted Panzerjager support for conventional types, relatively cheap and low complexity compared to turreted types, matched running gear for the vehicles they were expected to serve with, and they had some difficulty fitting the massive 12.8 into turrets anyway - so in late '43 - Panzerjager Tiger B it was.

    I suppose Sturer Emil was an earlier but similar usage of a 12.8 bfg, and that proved moderately useful despite the extremely limited production/conversion (20+ kills on one of the pair? memory fails me). There was a place conceptually for something with a bit more 'oomph' which could snipe from cover at heavy targets - a concept which the British took up with Caernarvon & Conqueror postwar, while the US did the same with M103.
     
    von Poop, Jul 31, 2012
    #42
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    12.8cm gun? May I restate my utterings of 6 years ago?

    Someday I'll have my shrink to explain to me this fixation with nazi tanks. Is it the Hugo Boss uniforms? Heck, the JS-II packed a gun as big at 45 tons total weight (against 72 for the JT) plus the benefit of a rotating turret. Of course the ammunition load was smaller, but you have to make a compromise somewhere. And production was 250 a month, that is, for each JT made in its entire life, the Russians were making 3 every month, not making any more 'coz they felt no need!
     
    Za Rodinu, Jul 31, 2012
    #43
  4. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    I can only be glad that they continued to waste resources so.
    The one at Bovington still gives me the giggles.

    [​IMG]

    I was always a bit confused by the way they dovetailed the plates together on the Jagdtiger. I figured it was a complete waste of effort if they were going to weld the joints anyway. But this picture seems to show that they weren't welded after all since the rear of the superstructure came apart at the seam.

    I've seen the one at Aberdeen and the dovetailing on the front hull is very elaborate. Anyone know what they didn't use arc welding instead of complicated joints. It would have been stronger, cheaper and faster.

    I found this video on the net that shows some of the joints pretty well. Neither this guy nor his wife notice the subliminal figures on the rear corner of the left side. I like to think the Germans painted them but it was probably the Americans in the late forties since the AP strikes are repainted. One way or the other, it's been that way for over sixty years for thousands of class trips, family vacations etc. I didn't notice it on my first trip either. Someone pointed it out during a later visit.


    [YOUTUBE]NdJgVj1Q4ok[/YOUTUBE]
     
    Dave55, Jul 31, 2012
    #44
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The dovetailing is welded, Dave. It's just that the one above has been hit very hard indeed.
    The theory behind German welding and interlocked joining methods was very sound, you can see it on many of their vehicles and I've an allied report or two somewhere that admire the methodology.

    The problem was, like many of their technologies - the welding they used (I forget what it was called, some sort of newish electrical process?), while advanced for the time, was too subject to the pressures of war, and perhaps not a 'mature' enough technology.
    Under ideal conditions it would seem theoretically perfect, but the usual problems of supply/materials etc. which plagued them throughout the later war, led to noted weaknesses along welded joints.

    There was a nice page on Russian testing on a KT where the main splitting of plate was along weak weld seams, but it seems to have gone offline now.
    This might interest. Has some quite nice illustrations and the usual concise coverage of such reports:
    Welding Design and Fabrication of German Tank Hulls and Turrets - UK - 1948
     
    von Poop, Jul 31, 2012
    #45
  6. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Wills, Jul 31, 2012
    #46
  7. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    That report is so damned good it reminds me of Lisa Minelli singing New York. She has to sings it twice :D
     
    Za Rodinu, Jul 31, 2012
    #47
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    What Miguel said. Fantastic report!

    Thanks
     
    Dave55, Jul 31, 2012
    #48
  9. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I'm not going to open another thread, and this may touch a bit on this one.

    The ISU-152 was being discussed "elsewhere", and an Eastern European member was asked wether it had some nickname in Russian. It had!

    Nickname was "Pizdets svemu" which means "Fucking end to everything" in polite version due the effectiveness vs everything encountered.

    Pardon my French :D
     
    Za Rodinu, Aug 1, 2012
    #49
  10. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Wills, Aug 1, 2012
    #50
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