THE FORGOTTEN WAR. The China India Burma theatre.

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by Ranger6, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    I wonder is this a rehash of his book March Or Die:unsure:March or Die: Story of Wingate's Chindits: Amazon.co.uk: Philip Chinnery: Books

    I really don´t think so, since, based on titles only, the one I mentioned seems like specialist reading, with this one designed to give a broader picture of the whole campaign.

    However, it seems like we need the proud owner of both, PRONTO, to take care of the doubt :confused:.
     
  2. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

  3. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Follow this link, and try the preview:

    Amazon.com: March or Die: The Story of Wingate's Chindits (9781853107177): Philip D. Chinnery: Books

    According to the Table of Contents, Longcloth is about 76pp long, while the other job is 208pp long.

    No doubt one was the basis for the other, but the extra material must make up for the initial similarities.

    I have "March or Die" and that is a story about both Chindits expeditions. "Wingate's Lost Brigade" talking only about 1st Expedition during 1943.

    Some other good books about Chindits I read:

    Calvert's "Prisoners of Hope"
    Masters's "Road past Mandalay" (not generaly about Chindits but have one part about 111th Indian Brigade).
     
  4. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Liar

    In February 8, 1943 in Operation Longcloth, 3000 Chindits, Wingate with them, begun their march into Burma. The original intent had been to use the Chindits as a part of a larger offensive but it was cancelled. Wingate convinced General Wavell to send the Chindits into Burma in spite of the cancellation of the larger offensive.
    The Chindits crossed the Chindwin River on February 13 and faced the first Japanese troops two days later. They were divided into seven columns. Two columns marched to the south and received their air supply drops in broad daylight to create an impression that they were the main attack. They even had a man impersonating a British general along with them. RAF mounted air attacks on Japanese targets to support the deception. These columns were to swing east at the beginning of march and attack the main north-south in areas south of the main force. One column successfully carried out demolitions along the railway but the other column was ambushed. Half of the ambushed column returned to India.
    Five other columns proceeded eastward. Two, those of Michael Calvert and Bernard Fergusson, proceeded towards the main north-south railway in Burma. On March 4 Calvert's column reached the valley and demolished the railway in 70 places. Fergusson arrived two days later to do the same. The railway was put out of action only for a very short period.
    On many occasions, the Chindits could not take their wounded with them; some were left behind in villages. Wingate had in fact issued specific orders to leave behind all wounded, but these orders were not strictly followed. Since there were often no established paths in the jungle along their routes, many times they had to clear their own with machetes and kukris. A single RAF squadron of 6 planes supplied them by air.
    Once in Burma, Wingate repeatedly changed his plans, sometimes without informing all the column commanders. The majority of two of the columns marched back to India after being ambushed by the Japanese in separate actions. After the railway attacks, he decided to cross his force over the Irrawaddy River. However, the area on the other side of the river turned out to be inhospitable to operations. Potable drinking water was difficult to obtain and the combination of rivers with a good system of roads in the area allowed the Japanese to force the Chindits into a progressively smaller "box".
    In late March, Wingate made the decision to withdraw the majority of the force, but sent orders to one of the columns to continue eastward. The operations had reached the range limit of air supply and prospects for new successful operations were low given Japanese pressure. The columns were generally left to make their own way back to India. On the exflitration back, the most difficult actions involved crossing back over the Irrawaddy River. The Japanese had observers and patrols all along the river bank and could quickly concentrate once an attempt at a crossing was detected. Gradually, all the columns broke up into small groups. Wingate's headquarters returned to India on its own ahead of most of the columns. Through the spring and even into the fall of 1943 individual groups of men from the Chindits made their way back to India. The army did what they could for the men. In one case, an airplane was landed in an open area and wounded men were evacuated by air. Part of one column made it to China. Another portion of the men escaped into the far north of Burma. Others were captured or died.
    By the end of April, after the mission of three months, the majority of the surviving Chindits had crossed the Chindwin river. They had lost a total of 818 or more men. Of the other men, Wingate almost hand picked those few he would retain. Both battalions, with the hand-picked exceptions, were put back under the normal army command structure.

    Sources used. wikipedia. Chindits 1st Expedition 1943 Operation Longcloth
    The 1st Chindit Expedition, Operation Longcloth, 1943 [Archive] - Military Photos
     
  5. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Warlord & Sol many thanks for info looks like its worth getting the new book:D
     
  6. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    Warlord & Sol many thanks for info looks like its worth getting the new book:D

    There are several more (which are in my library thanks to a recent salary raise ;)) that will take relevance as this thread develops towards other aspects of the CBI.

    For the time being, thanks to you and to The One Who Leads The Way for having this useful idea for us CBI, ABDA, SWPA, fans... :)
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Gents,

    Phil Chinnery's new book does go back over old ground somewhat, but does pick up just about all the stories and first hand accounts that have been written about operation 'Longcloth'.
    If you have read 'March or Die' you may be re-treading old ground, but there will be something new within, that will please. Some great group photographs too.

    Bamboo.
     
  8. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Liar

    thank you for the tip
     
  9. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    There are several more (which are in my library thanks to a recent salary raise ;)) that will take relevance as this thread develops towards other aspects of the CBI.

    For the time being, thanks to you and to The One Who Leads The Way for having this useful idea for us CBI, ABDA, SWPA, fans... :)
    I would recommend this site as a good ref for POW info and it has a extensive book list;) also it might be handy for Bamboo thats if I have not mentioned it to him before:D Fepow Community and thanks for the thanks:D
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Jason,

    Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking about attending the POW conference this October at the National Memorial Arboretum (mentioned on the FEPOW website). There are several speakers from overseas booked to give talks, one of whom has helped me quite a bit regarding Rangoon Jail.

    The problem as always is time and perhaps the fact that my research is a little specific and unlikely to be covered by the conference itinerary.

    Cheers.

    Bamboo.
     
  11. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  12. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Hi Jason,

    Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking about attending the POW conference this October at the National Memorial Arboretum (mentioned on the FEPOW website). There are several speakers from overseas booked to give talks, one of whom has helped me quite a bit regarding Rangoon Jail.

    The problem as always is time and perhaps the fact that my research is a little specific and unlikely to be covered by the conference itinerary.

    Cheers.

    Bamboo.
    Be intrested to know more about this;)
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

  14. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  15. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    From Mike Calverts book Prisoners Of Hope a story relating to a member of the 6th Nigerian Rifles and his capture folowing thier landing at Broadway."We later captured the Jap interrorgation reports on their African prisoners to whose answers the japanese gave nearly the highest degree of credence. 'Where have you come from?' 'We dropped from the sky.' How many of you are there?' Thousands upon thousands upon thousands, to many to count.' 'How did you come, by aeroplane, glider or what?' 'We just dropped.' 'Are you parachutists?' Naturally. 'All Africans are parachutists.' When did you leave Africa?' 'It is so long ago. I cannot remember.' 'How many African soldiers are their in India?' 'I think about a million.' 'You lie Thwack! 'I am sorry. I wont lie again. Just over a million and a half.' 'What sort of armaments have you?' We have a huge new cannon, which a man can carry and fire without hurting himself.' 'What is the establisment of these?' 'Two to a company. Eight to a battalion. Sixteen too a divison.Thirty-two to a corps-parachute corps' 'How many parachute corps are there?' 'I do not know- two or three, I think' 'Will you lead us to where you landed' ' Of course. Why not' He lead them to Broadway. If this was not a very good reason for the diverse nature of the troops in the Chindits the I dont know what was!;)
     
  16. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  17. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  18. idler

    idler GeneralList

    As we've mentioned the Africans, I can recommend War Bush on the basis of the little bit of it I've read. Essentially, the West African Divisions were Chindits by nature, not always by name. Their establishment included carriers/porters organic to units and in 'Auxiliary Groups'.
     
  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi All,

    The West African soldiers were some of the bravest units in the 1944 Chindit operation.

    I was very lucky to meet one of their officers a couple of years ago. He was with the 9th Nigerians (I think) at 'White City'. He had some wonderful stories about them: "although they had a natural instinct for finding their way around the jungle", he remarked that you never told a WA to proceed left or right as an order, only east or west. This he told me was because "they never checked which way they were facing when told and I lost a few to Jap snipers, strolling the wrong way back to camp"!!

    Another was that when the unit had just received a fresh supply drop, the Medical officer could not understand where his new supply of blood plasma had got to? Next day a WA corporal went up to the officer and asked if he could radio in for some more of that jam that came down from the sky yesterday!!

    Bamboo.
     
  20. China Hand

    China Hand No Longer A Forum Member

    Hi, I have only just noticed this thread...I have two interests in CBI :

    1. My great uncle commanded 80th British General Hospital, which provided medical support to the Marauders during their training at Deogarh in India late 1943-early 1944. I researched this in the 1990s...see below...so right in there with you on UK-US co-operation ! :)

    2. More recently, after living in China, I have become very interested in the wider issues of the theatre. Of which more anon...

    In terms of my great uncle's connection, and I see you have mentioned the Marauders already, these might interest you...

    Deogarh 1.jpg Photo showing Lord Louis Mountbatten, then CinC SEAC, visiting the Marauders at Deogarh Camp, India - this was on 11 Jan 1944 - the photo is in my great uncle's photo album, which I now have, and I have never seen it anywhere else - Mountbatten is sitting on the box behind the pole, Wingate is on his left, Merrill is sitting on the tent floor on his right. My great uncle is the chap with the moustache to right rear, fourth from the right...
    Deogarh 2.jpg Letter from Brig Gen Merrill to Gen Auchinleck about my great uncle's hospital's support for them

    These three pages (sorry to have to split them, too big otherwise, they are from article I wrote in 1997 for the RAMC 'Army Medical Services Magazine' which explains the background...)

    View attachment Deogarh 3a.pdf
    View attachment Deogarh 3b.pdf
    View attachment Deogarh 3c.pdf

    Also relevant to the Mountbatten visit are these pages from Hopkins, James E.T., Spearhead - a complete history of Merrill's Marauder Rangers, Galahad Press, 1999 (excuse the pics, it is a very thick book at 770 pages and thus hard to scan). James Hopkins was medical officer with 3rd Battalion of the Marauders, and his book is the latest and most complete (as far as I am aware) history of their ops (I do like his mention of the bathtub for Mountbatten ;)). I was in touch with him back in the 1990s and he kindly gave my uncle's unit an honourable mention.

    View attachment 29647

    One lovely aspect of the research I did back in the 1990s - mostly by old fashioned snail-mail - was to make contact with Merrill's vets through the Merrill's Marauders Association. Their then President, Philip Piazza, kindly noted in one letter "I remember the hospital well, and we all certainly appreciate the fine care we were afforded by the personnel there at the time...". Another vet, Raymond Lyons, who was Gen Merrill's chief clerk, said "thank you for providing a copy of a letter that I probably typed up..." (see above). He added "we also ate British rations and hated such things as mutton but we appreciated the whisky ration..." :)

    I have tons more on all this, including c. 20+ pics of the hospital etc from my uncle's album, which I could post if folks are interested.

    As for CBI more generally...that can wait !
     

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