The Forgotten Army

Spidge[/quote]

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I noted the original post and this just supported that this area was just too much bad news for the British government to acknowledge. There just wasn't any good news to report from any of these regions except what has been stated. Australian divisions would have been in the same boat - statistics and virtually beyond relief.

Winston Churchill tried to divert the battle hardened Australian 6th & 7th divisions to Rangoon at the expense of Australia which would in hindsight have led to a loss loss. He had actually diverted them already before speaking with Curtain. He ignored Curtain and continued to divert the troops and supplies. It wasn't until two days later that Curtain was made aware and Churchill finally relented and ordered the original course to Australia.

Quote
Prime Minister Curtin recalls the 6th and 7th Divisions for the Defence of Australia
The gravity of the situation caused the Australian Government, led by Prime Minister John Curtin, to decide in February 1942 to recall Australia's AIF 6th and 7th Divisions from the Middle East to defend their own country. This decision was forced on Curtin by a realisation that Britain was more concerned to defend India against the Japanese rather than Australia, and that little material assistance in Australia's defence could be expected from Britain. While the troops of the AIF 6th and 7th Divisions were on route to Australia, with most of their fighting equipment following them aboard slow-moving merchant ships, the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, tried to divert them to Rangoon for use against the Japanese invaders of Burma.
However, Curtin stood firm, insisting that the battle-toughened AIF troops were vital to the defence of their own country. At this time Australia was being defended by 250,000 hastily recruited militia troops. Although mostly led by capable AIF officers and NCOs, the raw militia troops were poorly armed and inadequately trained to meet battle-toughened Japanese troops on equal terms. Had Curtin not resisted Churchill, it is likely that Australia's two AIF Divisions would have been swallowed up in the Burma disaster. As for Australia, without its AIF 7th Division, Port Moresby would almost certainly have fallen to the Japanese in September 1942. With Port Moresby in Japanese hands, Japanese bombers would have been able to strike deeply into the Australian mainland and Australia would have been exposed to a very substantial risk of Japanese invasion.
The Curtin government was fully aware that Australia would stand virtually alone and defenceless against the power of Japan unless the United States could be persuaded to help Australia. With the threat of Japanese invasion of Australia becoming ever more likely, Curtin worked tirelessly to persuade the United States to help Australia to resist the Japanese advance.

 

I know I wanted to know why the 14th army was forgotten but reading the Aussie comments reminded me that I know nothing of the Aussie in New Guinea. Ive heard of Port Mprsby and the Kokoda trail but they are only names to me. What happened there?

 

I know I wanted to know why the 14th army was forgotten but reading the Aussie comments reminded me that I know nothing of the Aussie in New Guinea. Ive heard of Port Mprsby and the Kokoda trail but they are only names to me. What happened there?

This provides a concise version of the Aussies in New Guinea and other theatres.

http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/asfaras/kokoda.html

 

How come the Australian government seems to sponsor these high quality information sources but anything originating from the British Government is usually a bit 'thin', I often seem to find what i'm after at some site with 'gov.au' in it's address. Seems there's a more healthy attitude to remembering the war over there. Is this the case Spidge?

They do use historians from the Australian war memorial et al and appropriate quite a bit of funding so the legend can continue.

Possibly theold saying applies: Do it - Do it well!

This is from the nominal roll site and gives a good concise insight into where all Australian services fought.

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/doc/overview.asp

 

Forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

My father-in-law spent some time in Burma / India. My wife has a plaque with cross keys on it. Between the keys at the top is a badge and at the bottom there's a shield with his name etched on it.

Does anyone know the origin of the cross keys please?

 

2 Signal Regiment - Regimental History

During the Second World War the Divisional Commander, Lieutenant General Sir Charles Lloyd, chose the Cross-Keys as the Divisional emblem. This was because his previous command was with the Guards Brigade and their emblem had been a single key. Sir Charles doubled the keys to make the Cross-Keys which were worn by the 2nd Divisional Signals Company. The Cross-Keys is, of course, significant to the Regiment’s location in York today. It is also a coincidence that many years ago, in times of need, the Archbishop of York would raise an Army, which wore his personal arms on their banners. The Archbishop’s personal arms were the Cross-Keys.
After the Second World War the Division served in the Far East before being disbanded and reformed in Lubbeck, Germany. The Regiment was retitled the 2nd Infantry Division and Signal Regiment. As a result of the 1981 Defence Review the Division was moved to York in 1983 to command the now reorganised 2 Infantry Division Headquarters and Signal Regiment.

 

Thanks for replying so quick and for the information and link.

 

Iv just read on here somewhere that the reason people didnt know about the forgotten army is because "there wasnt many British soldiers there" there were 33,000 chindits alone. I call that a substantial amount there is now less than 600 worldwide still alive.

 

English Education during the Second World War.

You need not feel to have been deprived, with regard to your poor diet of Brittish history. I was in school right through the war. We were short on teachers and books. With the enemy at the door (Dunkirk, and our armies in retreat on all sides), we were made to copy from a series of eight blackboards the "Great Wall of China," followed by "The Great Lakes" of North America That took up about two years of tedious copying. When I left school at 14, I thought that China and the USA were closer to us than were France and Germany. Since we were a little short of being called up for military service, (but were to be so shortly afterwards to do our National Service) it could have been of use to the nation to inform us about Europe. However, In a mining area our educators of the day reasoned that as boys destined to be trapped into the coal mining industry, we would not require a degree in order to use a shovel , thereby, for to make a living. (Mining was not considered to be a trade). It is a great surprise to me to hear that, somehow, so many of our local boys managed to find their own way to Dunkirk and the English Channel, during the retreat. If it had been our class nembers, we would have, in all probability, ended up under the shadow ot the Great Wall Of China.
Southern Geordie.

 

Yes, the main stage at the time concerning our green and pleasant land was the fight in europe.

also I believe although a more commonwealth campaign was pursued out in burma.

Dont forget leaders in the race to take germany could already see the cold war - or a communist/capitalist war ready to awaken. I feel it was more of a american corncern outside of our european battlefields

 

i did the american west at school too.but the t.v series world at war had a programme about kohima-imphal-burma battles,that was quite good.i wish we were taught about both wars though,lee.

 

Luck of the draw really Lee,some schools in my area had the old west and history of medicine(no,never got the connection) but most had the 20th century,ie ww1,russian revolution,rise of the nazi's,ww2,a smidge on vietnam and the arab israeli confilcts.
Mind you,thats not to say these were taught with any balance,ie,russian revolution = good thing, nazi = bad thing(not disputing that one),ww2 was all about rescuing the jewish people from camps and,well,Im not even going where the arab /israeli confilct went....
But one thing,specificaly regarding the 14th army,its percieved there wasnt quite as much "romance" attached to liberating "natives" in places no one has heard of,put that against liberating Paris etc and you kind of see where they are coming from.

 

There isn't supposed to be a connection. It's part of what is called 'The Schools History Project'. It's one of the two main History GCSE syllabuses, the other being Modern World History, which is now more popular and is what the other schools in your area were doing. The whole idea of SHP is to do a mixture of topics, which is in principle a good idea. Although I'm basically a Modern History buff, I don't think that it's a good idea for people to study Hitler and Stalin over and over again as some schools do. History is a subject with the broadest potential curriculum , for Heaven's sake. SHP is currently being revised. I'm not sure whether American West will survive. I think it's a fantastic period, but the main reason it was included on the original SHP syllabus was that Westerns were a big part of popular culture at the time. How long ago is that?

 

well,Im going back over 15 years so.....
I kind of agree with you though,the whole Hitler thing was over egged to the detriment of wide ranging or even british history.

 

Try living in a country were its main area of history was the "800 year struggle" against the British Empire. Talk about parochial.

 

forgotten again look.

 

Shouldnt that read Bl**dy British empire Gott'?

 

I was under the (now perhaps incorrect) impression
that 2nd Div used the Cross Keys emblem in Ww1 too?


2 Signal Regiment - Regimental History

During the Second World War the Divisional Commander, Lieutenant General Sir Charles Lloyd, chose the Cross-Keys as the Divisional emblem. This was because his previous command was with the Guards Brigade and their emblem had been a single key. Sir Charles doubled the keys to make the Cross-Keys which were worn by the 2nd Divisional Signals Company. The Cross-Keys is, of course, significant to the Regiment’s location in York today. It is also a coincidence that many years ago, in times of need, the Archbishop of York would raise an Army, which wore his personal arms on their banners. The Archbishop’s personal arms were the Cross-Keys.

 

Just giving this one a bump. Please be reassured, some of us never forget the 14th Army.