The European Cup

Discussion in 'The Barracks' started by vitellino, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    We are not all like that,sadly as with many things its the minority who make the headlines.
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  4. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I find Engish football simple but dragged down by media and political spin...

    His names John Bull, he's a 55 year old working class man from England. His family used to be miners and shipbuilders but he now stocks the shelves in Tesco because he is a proudman and work ,any work, gives him back his self esteem . He has a 20 year old female boss who has worked hard since she was 16 having been wrote off for not gaining those academic qualifications some employers now insist on.
    His Grandad fought the Germans in in WW2 and he loves history because,despite of current opinion,he is proud of his Nations past. He supports his home town Football Club just like his dad did, and doesnt care who they are as long as they give 100% for the fans and for the club he loves .
    He works with people who support his local rivals and enjoys the banter but realises at the end of the day it`s just a game . If he goes to the pub he does so to socialise he doesnt need to prove how patriotic he is by wearing an England football shirt ,he probably couldnt afford one anyhow .
    The emergence of millionaire footballers has meant he cannot afford to attend every game especially as he uses the occasion to take his son and daughter and have some family time whilst his wife enjoys a couple of hours peace on a Saturday afternoon or gets in the families shopping without any distraction .. This is a football fan ,this is a true ,English football fan.

    ...not grouped together and brought under the same umbrella as those described previously by some people who believe without question the media who love to brand us all as racists thugs and hooligans .There is a difference :flaguk:

    BrianHall1963, 14/264, Dave55 and 4 others like this.
  5. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    The good people who have served me in Tesco each week between 6 and 7 in the morning, week upon week, unfailingly cheerful and honest folk.... The local postman who I meet with his mother if I am there on a Friday and who exchange a muffled "Good morning" with... The local lady ( who is very fast at the checkout, almost Aldi throw it off the end of the run-out speed ) who I have known for over forty years who supports Wolverhampton Wanderers because her late husband did ( although she does not know why an Essex lad of eight would become a lifelong supporter ( he died from cancer in February ), the chap I call "Big Cheese" who I talk to about diesel motors in Volvo cars of a certain vintage ( actually, a Volvo S60 was a Ford Focus underneath ) ( he bought a C30 and the turbo packed up a week later ), the other checkout lady who was the victim of a "cash for crash" incident whose dog died and her other dog became lonely so she gave another rescue dog a home so the other dog would stop playing the violin... I have not seen "John Bull" Mark 1 locally.. I could ask, but I honestly do not think I will find a match.

    Anyway, for a Football Conference club situated near to Canons Park or Queensbury Tube stations on the Jubilee line, therefore on the line that serves Wembley, and very close to that stadium with the arch, and which is actually in Harrow but is associated with Barnet, which is further north, ( it's a very long story ), because it is called Barnet FC, and has supporters who travel from Norway ( who must have a true sense of humour ) .... please visit this thread on their chat site "Only Barnet" and it might be seen that fair play still exists in England ( note that TK is the club's owner, who has Greek ancestry, and the club hosts weddings, often from the Indian or African community living locally )... The club ground is called The Hive because the nickname for the club is The Bees ( there are other impostors in the English football hierarchy who call themselves The Bees )

    Oh and the club has the worst record of all, but when you support a club you have to put up with it... - Barnet FC Fans Forum • View topic - Italy training at THL
  6. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Active Member

    I think you are missing my point Kyle - I am certainly not calling English football fans racists, hooligans or otherwise. I am writing as someone who has an interest in pre Second World War British Nationalism, not the media managed Spitfire patriotism fed to the public. I just think that with the UK's politics the way it is, any form of Nationalism supported by the media or government has to be questionable - lets be honest, football is one of the biggest platforms they have. One minute its English football fans are racist, the next minute its Churchill and Spitfires, soon after its taking a knee for a dead black criminal in America and after that its the LGBTI agenda.......

    Anyway, best not get into politics -

    Emps (One time Saints Academy player, son of a Bundesliga player and Great Grandson of a Saints player)
  7. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    For a long time I used to travel by train on Saturdays and often found myself sharing space with football crowds. We had windows smashed one time and though the culprits were still in the carriage the Police made no attempt to arrest them but decided to just get shot of the whole lot of the mob as quickly as possible. I can say that they (in the main) are loud, aggressive and totally intimidating especially to young females that happen to cross their path.. To deny this or claim they are 'only a minority' is disingenuous. Any large group of drunken males behaves in the same way be they Policemen, Vicars or the local Gay pride chapter. It is a fact of life. It may be it is the UK drinking culture is the problem but that does not excuse the behaviour.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  8. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    No I dont think I am missing any point . I offered an alternative `John Bull` nothing more. Its a comparrison of views nothing more. The media ,I agree totally with your reflections , do attempt to influence public thinking but its wrong to believe that it is football fans who are the ones influenced by this . Football fans come from all walks of life,levels of education and intellect they are not all the feeble minded hoards the media believe they are . (Of course theres always the exceptions to this rule :flaguk:

    ...sharing space with football crowds ,some of whom break the windows ,the Police do nothing just to get shot of the mob? Yet you travelled on that train would you be happy to be numbered amongst those responsible ? Is everyone on that train part of the `mob` ? Of course not, just like I as a football fan do not want to be associated with the `mob`

    I do believe without reservation that these are a minority they can be nothing else as the defination of the word minority defines itself as "the smaller number or part, especially a number or part representing less than half of the whole"

    Any large group of `drunken males` why males ? why not any large group of `drunken persons` ? Bad Behaviour cannot be attributed to any group regardless of gender or any other characteristic . Try visiting Newcastle Quayside on a Fri/Sat night ! :)

    Its an individuals choice to partake in bad behaviour and if another individual chooses to join in that bad behaviour it is once again an individuals choice? Peer pressure is often used as an excuse but at the end of the day, again it is an individuals choice again to submit to it . Sorry definate Minority:flaguk: Those you encountered on the train are Hooligans not `fans`.

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
    BrianHall1963 likes this.
  9. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    I am no shrinking violet but I refuse to tackle 30+drunken twats on my own. It may be part of the 'football crowd' culture to dive into such a mob and start a fight but I grew out of that mindset when I was around 21. I have been on many trains packed with such people but I have never yet seen the 'quiet ones' tackle the 'gobby ones' and tell them to behave. I worked with a man who was a complete mouse. Timid and frightened of his own shadow at work but he was an 'ardent football fan'. One day there was a riot at a local Derby and the local paper had a photo of the mayhem. Riot police were captured fighting the mob and laying in front of a policeman with his baton raised over his head was our mouse all curled up to receive the blow. It is a disease that afflicts many middle-aged men. They need to prove how hard they are so they seek the safety of numbers to indulge their fantasy. It is not by chance that a certain Stephen Christopher Yaxley changed his name to attract this demographic.
  10. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The 'No true Scotsman' fallacy.
  11. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    It is no worse where I live (just down the road) and I specifically said its probably the drinking culture. That does not excuse the 'football fans' who, by and large, are heavy drinkers.

    You can be both. The safety of the crowd allows normal people to act in abnormal ways with a very low chance of any repercussions.
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    We were winning 1-0. The Italy team couldn’t string passes together, over hit them, shot from outside the box, were arguing amongst themselves and had ‘fear’ sketched on their faces. England were totally dominant.

    Italy were not in the game and couldn’t find a way into it.

    So, why did England suddenly stop their successful high press of previous matches, and decide to retreat and defend on the edge of their own 18 yard box, when Italy got the ball on the edge of their own 18 yard box? Surely, it must have been dictated tactics for the match.

    It handed the initiative to Italy and we know what the result of that was.
  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    But your post was that way inclined so a balanced view was given.
    Thank goodness we are now on a level playing field


    (Full Time Village idiot,Son of a Milkman and Grandson of Coal Hewer)
    Mr Jinks likes this.
  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  15. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Oh dear. You do not recognise the difference between a `Football fan` and a `Hooligan` so there is little point in trying to convince you . The mass media and a closed mind have succeeded in there task. I`m sorry for your experiences . I`m not even going to mention the lad you mention surfice to say you are now drifting into politics rather than the differences between `Fans` and `Hooligans` . You have used the `umbrella` and from your comments do not consider there to be any differences, not willing to consider different ideas or opinions so be it.
    The language used in the first line indicates I have irritated even angered you ? Why because I maintain a different opinion .Please re-read my description of `John Bull` the football fan it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the people you describe `Hooligan` not `Fans` . There is a difference ,

    Answer the question below

    The images below show :-

    A) Football Fans
    B) Hooligans
    C) Football Fans AND Hooligans (An acknowledgement of a difference is required to select this option)

    Football-Manchester-City-008.jpg Hooligans.jpg

  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    oh dont forget the Wealdstone FC connection or perhaps best not
    papiermache likes this.
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  18. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    Children can be crazy football fans. It is what being immature is about. Adult males running around in a delerium because there team won is just sad. Adult male football fans are just train-spotters (and those blokes you see taking photos at bus stations)who never mastered writing..
  19. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Surprised you say that .It is a bit of a generalisation on train spotters or people who collect things. .Sometimes this is linked to a spectrum disorder and is a comforting function for the individual.
    Mr Jinks likes this.

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