The European Cup

Discussion in 'The Barracks' started by vitellino, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Good morning from sunny Italy.

    Despite the bright sunshine the atmosphere here is very heavy indeed. The european cup is being seen as the means to settle old scores - very old scores, those going back to the desert war and the defeat of the Italian Army in North Africa in the spring of 1943. A certain section of the populace has not yet forgiven the allies for having halted Tito and his mob at Trieste in 1945..

    In the local press Churchill is being accredited with things he never said, and the Italians are being told that they are very different from us (as though they didn't already know that!)

    I am being informed yet again that it was the Americans who liberated Italy.

    I wonder what sort of treatment is being meted out to the thousands of Italians living in England? Their relatives here never lose an opportunity to brag about that fact that their dear son/daughter/grandchildren live and work in London!


    . Churchill in Castiglioncello 1944.jpg

    August 1944 Churchill in my home town, Castiglioncello

    Edited to say: perhaps it's not called the European Cup....that shows how well informed I am...but it's going to happen tomorrow evening!
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
    Ramiles likes this.
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    72. England v Italy

    72. England v Italy
    No country has enjoyed a greater influence on the English than Italy. Ahead of the European Championship final, Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland explore the history of Rome, Italy and England.
  3. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    I wonder if the Italians realise that?

    In the thirty years I have been living in Italy no-one has put forward this argument in anything I have read (I am bilingual) or heard. At the moment the Italians are hell-bent on calling everything by its English name. Their own beautiful language is being bastardised left right and centre.
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    We are as polite as we always are to all sorts who are in London and will continue to do so win or lose.
    I think the people who dont forget should understand had the Allies not won the war they might not have been here to moan.
    Every country in the world has its blamers for their own history etc

    onward and upwards

    its only a game
    4jonboy and Steve Mac like this.
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thread title is incorrect.
    The European Cup was a club competetion that became the Champions League.

    The match tomorrow night is the final of the European Football Championship.
  6. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member


    Definitely not sunny here... which is actually an advantage for running around on a football field.Tomorrow night: rain and max 17c, possibly..

    I'll play a straight bat on this - clearly some of those in the higher echelons of government here thought they could glean some sort of political advantage (out of the team) but clearly that has now back-fired.

    On the football - my own view is 55/45 in favour of the Italian team....I think the "travelling advantage" has now dissipated as Italy were also in London this week for the semi final - being able to play your first three games at home seemed to have a distinct advantage for most teams and, given the withdrawal of Dublin, England were also able to play Germany at home....before a day trip to the Eternal City last weekend. England have some decent players and a decent coach. A couple of London Irishmen (Kane: Walthamstow/Galway and Rice: Kingston/Cork) so expect some tough tacking....

    I do remember July 1966 - a thunderstorn in Slough meant I missed some of the game. Some dubious refereeing decisions that day.

    Prediction: no extra time so jim jams by 10.15....

    In terms of anniversaries, not to forget that Allied forces came ashore in Italy in the early morning 78 years ago today.... (I mentioned the war there, but I think I might get away with it).

    best wishes

    No doubt, you saw this photo from the game the other night - I think the caption was "What did the British (sic) ever do for us?"

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There's an article here about Mussolini and football...

    And... more contemporary...

    Romano Floriani Mussolini - Wikipedia

    Has "Mussolini was born in 2003 as the third child of the Forza Italia Member of the European Parliament Alessandra Mussolini and Mauro Floriani. He has a double surname as a result."


    "This was done as an exception to Italian name customs with Italian civil authorities and the Roman Catholic Church agreeing to it at his baptism as double surnames were not usually allowed under Italian law at the time of his birth."

    I think I could better understand if Romano were therefore referred to as "Floriani-Mussolini" but on the whole it seems to have defaulted to "Mussolini" playing football... when journalists write their articles....

    Although not on the shirt... pictures of which, I think, - from the back - are quite hard to find, but where found - "Floriani-M" is seen...

    So it's quite difficult to see if the journalists are merely doing "what journalists do"... and will probably continue to do etc... ;-)

    Attached Files:

  8. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Thanks for posting these. I have to admit that as I don't follow sport I was not aware of Florian Mussolini's football career.

    What struck me most was the paragraph from the first quote:

    The Italians took special relish in their competitions against political and cultural rivals in Europe such as France, Spain, and England. In 1936 the American sports writer John Tunis asserted that, “An Italian triumph in football, cycling, tennis, or any other sport, particularly if over old rivals like the French, is seized upon, written up and paraded as proof positive of the superiority of the race and its governing principles.''

    It makes me realise that little has changed in how people think, though few would admit it. Despite their wonderful cultural and culinary heritage many Italians, above all male, need to feel superior, and victory at sport does the trick.

    Chris C likes this.
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Political advantage?

    All parties have jumped on the" its coming home nonsense"
    Lets stick to football
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    21st Century jingoism seems to be a symbol of societies in decline. That probably applies to Italy to some degree as well as the UK. Italy has never truly let loose of fascism and the UK is now embracing it. There is bound to be conflict but that's what they want of course.
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron


    the UK is not embracing fascism at all

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  12. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    It hasn't truly let loose of communism either....


    Rich Payne likes this.
  13. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    We're going to get into trouble here, but from the outside looking in, honestly....
  14. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    I see what you are saying mate
    but I can safely say it isnt from ground level it really isnt

    Government ministers are being urged not to declare “it’s coming home” while supporting the England football team because it aggravates foreign nations.
    Don’t say it’s coming home, ministers told | News | The Times

  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Copa America looks interesting
    Argentina v Brazil
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Well, in England, we don't get our teeth fixed! We're poor bastards but nice people! So, don't judge a person by their teeth but by their heart! And we're all heart!

    BrianHall1963 likes this.
  17. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Regardless of covid, my half half-English daughters can't spend a long summer with their 97 year old Normandy veteran grandfather unless they receive a visa which due to financial restrictions on earnings, they cannot. If that isn't an exploitation of a hatred of foreigners by a populist neo-fascist government supported by a rabble-rousing, tax avoiding press then I don't know what is. Perhaps it's not possible to understand fascism until one is rejected and excluded by the society that one regarded as one's own ?
    Shiny 9th likes this.
  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Blimey mate not sure it is like that
    Do you mean entering the UK
    EU, EEA and Swiss citizens can travel to the UK for holidays or short trips without needing a visa. You can cross the UK border using a valid passport which should be valid for the whole time you are in the UK.
  19. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I can sympathize with the Italian cause. I realize that Italy has had a very bad year and a half. It was hit early and very severely by COVID, and the country is in sore need of good news. I also pray that whatever happens the players and fans of both nations will conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike way and not sink into thuggish nationalism. All that said, I am pulling for England. May the best team, and the game itself, win.
  20. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Italy has had a very bad century and a half, ever since unification.

    Football is the only thing that holds them all together.
    TTH likes this.

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