The Delay of the Me262

We have to be thankfull of the Bomber Offensive and causing disruption to the manufacture and especially the destruction of fuel for the planes.

Quite a number were grounded through lack of fuel
.

Not as much as you might think As late as Heinrich Fey's defection, he himself was aware of at least SIX synthetic fuel plants the Allies didn't know of....and were VERY grateful for the knowledge....

The REAL bugbear was whole ENGINES and spares. The Jumo's terrible service lifetime resulted in a large number of aircraft grounded waiting on spares that simply couldn't move around the country....while the airframe "factories" had aircraft piled up under trees and camo awaiting engines. Galland moved JV44 gradually further and further to the South-East, airstrips permitting (the Me262 was HORRIBLY sensitive to both the LENGTH of runways and how hardened they were ) to get closer to spares and engine sources. IIRC it was Fey had the anecdote of the airfield maintenance units themselves having to sneak off by night in lorries to bring back engine units, to avoid Allied jabos roaming all over Germany by day.

It's been a long time since I read it, but IIRC there's an ALSOS report on synthetic fuel and German fuel stocks that indicated the Germans had over a quarter of a million tons of assorted aviation fuels bunkered when the war ended...including the RP2 that the Me262 used - but like Jumo engines, the REAL problem was getting it to where it was needed

There are a set of other factors that are very often forgotten; foremost being that with the Allied air supremacy...flight training of ANY kind was almost totally moribund. Galland had gathered the remaining "veteran" pilots to him around JV44. Training on the ME262 was....well, hopeless LOL a couple of ground taxiis with a sergeant-fitter or experience pilot hanging onto the fuselage pointing out controls, two acclimatisation flights, ...and an interview with an experienced pilot using a desktop penholder to illustrate HOW to handle the near-catatrophe Jumo-failure-in-flight issue and attempted reheats! There's a copy of this on YouTube IIRC. Even experienced pilots had trouble acclimatising to the foibles of the Me262 - the unreliable nosewheel that wouldn't castor properly...there are a LOT of taxiing accidents, some fatal to veteran flyers! - the "long" high-speed takeoffs and landings (the Me262 takeoff routine was accelerate down a VERY long runway, pick up enough speed to JUST get off the ground, then raise the undercarriage with the aircraft STILL that few feet above the runway!)....and the problems the heavy aircraft with the nosewheel issue had with landing surfaces that were less than rock-hard! Several of the "hidden" Me262 assembly factories had pounded earth or grass runways, and the Me262 was unable to use them in anything other than bone dry conditions; IIRC 60 aircraft were destroyed in one raid on one of these factories because the condition of the runway meant that dozens of completed aircraft simply couldn't be flown off to safety!

 

I know nothing about the 262 but have seen it close too. We were taking up positions somewhere in Holland; I had just got out of my wireless truck at a farm, the guns were still on the road when up the road at tree top height came this 262. What a racket! Minutes later he came back down the road, by this time the Bofors had opened up and it became quite hairy because he was so low, the place became showered with Bofors shells. The tin hut I was standing by was nearly demolished, it was all over in seconds. I then had to set up my wireless in a chicken coop, don't ask why.
Jim

 

I know nothing about the 262 but have seen it close too. We were taking up positions somewhere in Holland; I had just got out of my wireless truck at a farm, the guns were still on the road when up the road at tree top height came this 262. What a racket! Minutes later he came back down the road, by this time the Bofors had opened up and it became quite hairy because he was so low, the place became showered with Bofors shells. The tin hut I was standing by was nearly demolished, it was all over in seconds. I then had to set up my wireless in a chicken coop, don't ask why.
Jim

Sounds hairy, Jim. Awesome sight thou I bet.

 

I have spoken to some of the Bofors gunners who saw the 262. One gunner thought that the days of the Bofors were over when the jet was invented. He was used to closing his eyes and turning his face to the sound to locate the Me's. They called the 262s hedge-hoppers.The main problem was they only heard and saw them after they had passed over their locations.

This link takes you to an article on an underground site being built for the production of the 262's. It was located at Muhldorm, near Munich, but the allied army overran Munich before the location was completed.

LIFE - Google Books

 

One gunner thought that the days of the Bofors were over when the jet was invented.

The answer would pronbably a very small VT shell for them eventually, so that Bofors gunners could simply hose up rounds and let bogies flew through the curtain; a bit like a small-calibre version of what was done in 1944 for V1s...

 

The lifetime of the turbines was fairly short. Above I read it was 15 hours in another source I remember to have read 24 hours. I guess that it was somehow similar to modern gas turbines - the starts count as well (in gas turbine power stations we count the EOH -equivalent operating hours).

I recall a small readers letter in one of the British airplane-magazines (FlyPast or something like this). That particular reader explained that shortly after the war, on the farm of his father, there was a worker from Yugoslavia. He told him that he was an engineer who was brought by the Germans to one of their factories where he was busy with the turbins for the Me.262. Not unusual. But what was interesting is that this man said they had sabotaged the turbine-blades to make their lifetime shorter...
If such is true, then those people in the factories may have done as much to keep the Me.262 on the ground as the Allied fighter pilots and the bombers. Only they are hardly recognized for their efforts.

 

Kuno,
Absolutely.
These workers who caused sabotage in the aircraft and munitions industry risked instant execution if found out.

Very brave people who are not recognised as no-one knows the impact that they had.

It is impossible to quantify the lives saved by the efforts of those brave individuals.

Regards
Tom

 

The manual-mandated life was a MAXImUM of 25 hours before total mandated replacement...with IIRC different levels of maintenance and inspection before that, starting at 10 hours...

However, engine failure at 10-12 hours was by NO means unknown at all, and it was a very rare engine that would make it to the 25-hour swapout.

The Me262 was however a bugger to fly once one engine failed ( there were, after all, TWO....and NO guarantee they'd both fail at once and give the pilot the option to bail!) - it flew crabwise, and needed SEVERE retrimming to stay in the air....and of course was a LOT slower and far less manouverable!

There WAS an approved regime for attempting to relight a flamed-out engine....but it meant throttling the other way back, then attempting to relight and SLOWLY picking up power on both....and of course RE-trimming again. However, more often than not it was pointless....while even slightly jerking the throttles open would cause the OTHER to flame out! Doesn't sound like much of a problem - but remember these were veteran piston-engine jocks with often YEARS of one particular regime with VERY little conversion training

Engines were even known to fail on taxiing...leading to a VERY narsty situation on the ground when combined with the non-castoring nosewheel!

 

PR,

I read a while ago that only one of the two engines was safe to fly if the other failed.

I do not remember which one without researching, but only one controlled certain vitals for flying.

The instructions were always to bale out if that particular motor failed.

Regards
Tom

 

PR,

Just found the item regarding the failures of the engines.

The Port engine was critical as the Hydraulics pump was fitted to it.

Regards
Tom

 

Was this really a good plane?

 

Tom, can you throw up a link to that? Wouldn't mind reading it. Seems to contradict the training vid where the "trainee" pilot is instructed on how to relight either inflight...

 

Was this really a good plane?

I think it would be best to look at the service performance of the ME 262 while in the Czeckoslovakia Air Force postwar service but bear in mind commissioning and working up to operational service is far removed from what the Luftwaffe had to endure in the chaos of war when Germany was sliding out of the war.While the western allies took models as war booty for their own aviation research,Czeckoslovakia was allowed to equip its new air force with ex Luftwaffe ME 262s.

The other point regarding the debate of delay in production progress from the USAAF bombing of the Regensburg factory on August 17 1943.Delay was considerable as the greater part of the assembly equipment for the fuselages was destroyed and this, together with the transfer of the development project from Augsberg to Oberammergau compounded the delay.

I think one of the problems the Germans had was that too many people had a contribution to the project,rather than keeping the project simple,too many variants were proposed.For instance several rocket boosted interceptor variants were proposed using the dreaded C stoff and T stoff and the work was abandoned when difficuluties were encountered in the provision of satisfactory seals and gaskets for the rocket fuel tanks.

All in all,the Germans tended to have their projects driven by multi committees which can hinder the progress of a project,especially if the specialists are not allowed the authority to push the project ahead without having to clear an intensive interface with others.For example, the V2 development programme had 13 different and independent committees all contributing what they thought was essential input.

Another misunderstanding of the project was that it was thought that conversion from pistoned engined aircraft to jet engined propulsion did not call for special conversion training.It led to many aircraft and pilot losses. An error of judgement which has only one outcome,that is the loss of advanced pilot skills.

 

Tom, can you throw up a link to that? Wouldn't mind reading it. Seems to contradict the training vid where the "trainee" pilot is instructed on how to relight either inflight...

PR,

I have scanned a couple of pages from the book Me 262 Stormbird Rising, by Hugh Morgan.
An excellent book in my estimation.

I cannot recall the source of the bailing out order when the Port engine failed, but the two pages attached mention other techniques eventually approved.

Appendix B para 11 is the relevent one to read.

The other page refers to Col Harold E Watson, of "Watsons Wizzers" and Project Lusty. This is watson warning to his pilots of engine failures.

Should I find the other source I will post it. It may mean having to re-read the book again

Regards
Tom

 

Czeckoslovakia was allowed to equip its new air force with ex Luftwaffe ME 262s.

Not quite Major components of the Me262 were actually MADE in Czechoslovakia during the war, in the old Avia-owned Letov aircraft factory at Letnany. The main factory made airframe parts, while CKD and Walter dispersed facilities supplied engine parts and whole Jumo004s; whole aircraft were being assembled at Cheb near the German border. At the beginning of May 1945 therefore there was a considerable stockpile of engines, airframes and other spares in Czechoslovakia. This was all seized by the Soviets, and Marshall Konev handed them to the new Czech government...but I'm not aware it was done by agreement between ALL the former allies! It totalled enough parts to build 17 complete aircraft.

HOWEVER the engines used weren't straight Jumo004B-1 - they were copied by Letecke as the M.04....and Avia actually continued development work on the airframe, producing a variant on the Me262A-1a. A single seat prototype S.92.1 Turbina first flew in late August 1946, but crashed soon after :mellow: followed by three CS.92 two-seat trainers...then a batch of three "production" S.92 singleseaters.

Production was quite slow; by the early 1950s only eight aircraft equiped the Czech 5th Fighter Flight....but then further work and production - two for the Yugoslav Air Force as well - was halted when the MiG15 began to be produced locally. It's a pity, for the Czechs were well into testing (at last!) the installation of BMW003 engines and redesigning the nosewheel and strut!

Sadly, most of the Czech variants were simply scrapped when the 5th Fighter Flight was disbanded at the end of 1951. Maybe this says something about how airworthy they were after such a short lifetime?

(Interestingly, it should be remembered that while production seems slow...Avia and Letov were ALSO assembling 551 Avia S.199s, the Jumo211F-piston engined Bf109G variant, at the same time for the Czech Air Force! :mellow: 25 of these were later exported to Israel and were the first fighter aircraft in the Israeli Air Force....and fought in 1948 against Egyptian Spitfires!!! )

 

Tom, thanks for that. I came across Watson and "Lusty" some time ago, and Lindner's "nursing" one aircraft out to 70 hours...but I note on OTHERS he experienced a total of TEN engine failures!

EDIT: however, now that I think more on that, if Lindner was Messerschmitt's test pilot - then the 70-hour version HE described may have been one of the development hacks with the decent engines, using all the fancy alloying metals to extend engine life....before the design of the Jumo004 was "rationalised" downwards in quality for mass production....! As Wiki says

The initial 004A engines built to power the Me 262 prototypes had been built without restrictions on materials, and they used scarce raw materials such as nickel, cobalt, and molybdenum in quantities which were unacceptable in production. Franz realized that the Jumo 004 would have to be redesigned to incorporate a minimum of these strategic materials, and this was accomplished. All the hot metal parts - including the combustion chamber - were changed to mild steel protected by an aluminum coating, and the hollow turbine blades were produced from folded and welded Cromadur alloy (12% chromium, 18% manganese, and 70% iron) developed by Krupp, and cooled by compressed air "bled" from the compressor. The engine's operational lifespan was shortened, but on the plus side it became easier to construct

Eric Brown ran a similar recovery project for the British...consisting IIRC at the start of himself and two assistants! Typical British shoestring...he had to fly himself and his two "bods" all over Germany from airfield to airfield chasing down rumours of prototypes hidden at out-of-the-way locations - but it meant HE got to fly the complete range of German types when making his selections for return to the UK. With the additional fun of in many cases doing so without manuals or checksheets!

 

PR,
With regards to the Avia 262's my book states that there were 18 airframes at the end of the war that they concentrated on to produce the finished jets.

Regards
Tom

 

Tom, maybe eighteen airframes....but according to William Green only enough parts for seventeen whole aircraft

(I've got three Kawasaki GT550s in the garage...but only ONE running engine! )

 

What was the performance of the Czeckoslovakia ME262s?

It is not surprising that the aircraft manufacturing site were in Czeckoslovakia.The country had been germanised since it was totally overrun in March 1939.Indeed the Skoda armament works were in German hands throughout the war and were on the list of Royal Air Force targets.

As it was, Czeckoslovakia who took advantage of Luftwaffe booty aided by the Soviet forces who were first on the scene as liberators.The West Powers were not interested in the ME 262 apart from aircraft which were used for assessment.For the Czecks,it was a cheap method of equipping their air force of what was to be an "independent" country which became a Soviet Union satellite when their independance came to an end when the post war government was deposed in 1948.

 

Indeed the Skoda armament works were in German hands throughout the war and were on the list of Royal Air Force targets


IIRC Skoda by the end of the war ended up as an umbrella company with factories in is own name as well as owning many other famous Czech "names"...

Harry, as for performance, according to William Green the PUBLIC specification for the S.92 Turbina was the same as the Me262A.

The West Powers were not interested in the ME 262 apart from aircraft which were used for assessment.


That's indeed correct - but not from any defect of the aircraft The Western Allies were as of May 1945 far more interested in German technology they could turn around and remanufacture QUICKLY to assist in the war against Japan, and the putative landings on the Home Islands...technology like the relatively simple to remanufacture V-1 which the USN was testing at Point Mugu VERY soon after the end of the war, and soon to become the "Loon".

The various national aviation industries however were interested in the longterm benefits of German technology ....look at the influence the Me262 and Komet had on DeHavilland's DH108 within a very short time, for instance...