The Delay of the Me262

Craig,

I found the site several years ago and was amazed at the information compiled right down to individual planes from works numbers to who flew them and what happened to the planes and pilots.

Harry,
Many thanks for the imput regarding engine maintainace times, do you have any references for me to look up?

Certainly the website is must for your favourites, for any Me 262 fans.

Regards
Tom

 

Jet aircraft/jet military plane Messerschmitt ME 262A on airfield


Underground production of ME 262 Kahla/Thuringia. - Underground arms production of jet military planes Messerschmitt ME 262 in the REIMAHG Rüstungswerken

 

Herget did not score with the 5cm cannon while serving in JV 44. On both occasions the long thing jammed.

suggest the 4 volume set on the 262 by Classic pubs as well as author Manfred Boehme's JG 7 written in English by Schiffer pubs in the States.

you also have the combat war diary as well written by Foreman/harvey

Osprey released recently their version of JG 7 by author Robert Forsyth whom has written a couple books just on JG 7, one of them the large Classic pubs edition.

and of course yours truly along with another is in the middle of Moskito-jagd über Deutschland covering the Luftwaffe Mossie hunters by night, with the focal point being 10./NJG 11 262's flying against the LSNF and Bomber Command.

 

Erich
you also have the combat war diary as well written by Foreman/harvey

This is the only specialist book I have relating to the 262 and it would seem to have travelled well over the years.
The lack of urgeny and awareness of the lack of time seems to me rather unreal - it seemed only to exist in the fighter pilots who saw things slipping away and equally in Donitz who was trying to get a new and improved submarine into active service.
The delay would in actual fact go back to 1940 when Hitler cancelled all long range research projects.

 

I wonder what else got cancelled in 1940???

 

Research on rockets and the atomic research project went by the board, anything which could not be brought into service within two years.
To Hitler at the tiem it made sence - Britain he jusdgeed to be beaten , and the USSR he judged to be over rated , the US when they realised that Germany was the European power broker would "stay out".
He was wrong on all counts.

Apart from the appearance of the FW190 Germany had few really new and significant additions in 1940 -41.
Therafter it was catch up , experiences in Russia led to an urgent need for a new heavy tank and for a more powerful anti tank gun.
As 42 moved to 43 a new submarine was urgently needed.
The need for a nightfighter arm was found wanting in 1940 , in the background jet and rocket research was carried on , the Russian experience again sharpened the interest in rockets by the Army and Germany by now engaed in a war whcih was so far beyond her resources was on the ropes , if anything she was rather threadbare in terms of having the tools to do the job and there was a lack of or failure to focus on priorities , priorities which shifted as crisises arose for competing interest groups , Army Navy , Airforce , home defence , and always Hitler's ability to look only at attacking and as he increasingly gathered the reins of power and took more and more decisions himself , often with limited insight or understanding that the jet became just another "might have been" or "almost" is understandable.

I think we often look at the science poroduced by germany as being much more than it actually was - our own guys produced major breakthroughs for less credit , they also countered , very quickly many of the advances made by the Germans.
certainly in terms of aircraft design and rockets the Germans were well ahead but these would not win a war if the science and design could not be translated into a timely produced and efficent weapons platform.

 

I'm reading a book at the moment called "The Last Year of the Luftwaffe" by Dr. Alfred Price and he has attempted to get through the myths about the Me262 and its role as a bomber. In it he confirms that Hitler twice asks if it could carry bombs and that this was not an unusual question as the fighters of the time could also have been expected to carry bombs, both the Me109 and FW190 performed both roles, as Fighter and Fighter-Bomber. Messerschmidt did indeed confirm that this was the case.

The author then goes on to say that Hitler was aware of the inadequacies of the state of the Luftwaffe in terms of being able to respond to any Allied incursion of the Atlantic Wall and thought that the only way the Luftwaffe would be able to respond effectively was to use Jet Aircraft, which would not be caught by Allied Fighters, to attack the beaches. If the jets could delay the Allied armies on the beaches, then this would give time to the ground forces to mobilise. I dont have the book in front of me but will add more detail later.

 

One thing that strikes me is that little publicity is made to actual use of 262s as bombers.

 

I think we often look at the science poroduced by germany as being much more than it actually was - our own guys produced major breakthroughs for less credit , they also countered , very quickly many of the advances made by the Germans.

Hear Hear James! Point well made. The fascination with the Third Reich also includes supposed technologies on the drawing boards at the end of the war. Very little interest in what was happening on the Allied side. Probably because it was off the drawing boards and in service!!

 

The fascination with the Third Reich also includes supposed technologies on the drawing boards at the end of the war. Very little interest in what was happening on the Allied side. Probably because it was off the drawing boards and in service!!


This came up for dicussion a while back on AHF. The opinion I've always come away with is that the Germans developed specific weapons and weapon systems with the prior intention of them to be war-winners/battle-winners when used in specific circumstances...

Whereas the ALLIES seemed more to specialise in APPLIED technology - like radar and the VT proximity fuse, which weren't ideally designed as battle-winners for ONE specific application, but changed the outcome of the battles/events in which they were used.

For instance - RADAR didn't win the Batle Of Britain, but WAS a significant factor in early detection/ground vectoring acting as a "force multiplier" for Fighter Command. BUT it's was only ONE role along with the development and long exercising of Fighter Command's new gound vectoring-based INTEGRATED command-and-control system, it's adotption of multibank-armed monoplane fighters for home defence etc...

In a GERMAN version of the BoB...they would have CONCENTRATED on radar, to the detriment of ALL other factors, and depended on IT to save their hides....

An ALLIED V1 or V2 for example wouldn't have been put into production UNTIL it could be made mobile and be made a longrange bombardment system with some degree of accuracy to fire behind the battlefront of an enemy....anywhere, wherever that frontline chanced to be.

WE downgraded and to an extent retarded some technological advances so that they COULD be put into quantity production and there be enough of them to be truly multipurpose weapons. Same idea as eschewing superheavy tanks in favour of greater numbers of medium and medium-heavy tanks except for the several aborted American tries and the too-late Challenger project.

 

With respect to aircraft, at least, the German technology was also PRETTY.

Bear with me on this, dont underestimate the power of "cool" these days...
Compare the He178 to the E28/39... ok, not much in it but
Me262 to the Meteor
and tanks...
Panther vs Cromwell... You decide but I know which one I like the look of best.

The allied equipment was pretty much all "utilitarian" in its look wheras the German equipment has a more exotic look and an alleged edge in engineering that is still used in advertising today

 

Jet aircraft/jet military plane Messerschmitt ME 262A on airfield




The numberplate on the caterpillar seems to be one of the Swiss army

 

The numberplate on the caterpillar seems to be one of the Swiss army

That is because the plane was flown to Dübendorff airfield (Near Zurich) in Switzerland, on 25th April 1945 by Hans-guido Mukte.

He later stated that "The Swiss surrounded the plane with roughly 60 soldiers, all with their guns aimed at me-something that struck me as being rather belligerent in Neutral Switzerland"

The plane was White 3, works number 2406786 and the tanks contained just 80 litres of fuel when he landed.

Regards
Tom

 

He later stated that "The Swiss surrounded the plane with roughly 60 soldiers, all with their guns aimed at me-something that struck me as being rather belligerent in Neutral Switzerland"

Normally they received war planes with flowers

 

I'm reading a book at the moment called "The Last Year of the Luftwaffe" by Dr. Alfred Price

On my list to get next, G. Any good?

 

Normally they received war planes with flowers

Kuno,
I thought that the comment was worth presenting.

A great present for the Swiss Airforce, who compiled quite a detailed document on the plane.

Regards
Tom

 

On my list to get next, G. Any good?
It is very interesting mate, and its not written in a unapproachable style.

I had made reference to Hitler wanting the Me262 used against the Normandy Beaches. Dr. Price quotes a comment from Hitler at a meeting on 20th December 1943 to senior Wehrmacht officers:

Every month that passes makes it more and more probable that we will get at least one gruppe of jet aircraft. The most important thing is that they (the enemy) get some bombs on top of them just as they try to invade. That will force them to take cover, and in this way they will waste hour after hour! But after half a day our reserves will already be on their way. So if we can pin them down on the beaches for just six or eight hours, you can see what that will mean to us.......................

Given the performance of the conventional aircraft of the Luftwaffe in Normandy 1944 it would not be beyond the realms of delusion to say that maybe Hitler might have had a point? That jets were the only practicable way the luftwaffe could strike at the Allies?

 

Gotthard,

The delay in getting the Me 262 operational and in too few a number to make a real impact, the real problem for the Luftwaffe was the total Allied Air Superiority.

The Allies had standing patrols waiting around the Jet airfields to pick off the Jets when they were most vulnerable, taking off and landing.

The fact that the Luftwaffe provided very hevy flak corridors for the jets to take of an land, plus the use of defending conventional fighter aircraft, this was still insufficient to remedy the problem.

Too little too late, and how many times have we heard that from the German Veterans in publications.

Regards
Tom

 

Gotthard,

The delay in getting the Me 262 operational and in too few a number to make a real impact, the real problem for the Luftwaffe was the total Allied Air Superiority.

The Allies had standing patrols waiting around the Jet airfields to pick of the Jets when they were most vulnerable, taking off and landing.

The fact that the Luftwaffe provided very hevy flak corridors for the jets to take of an land, plus the use of defending conventional fighter aircraft, this was still insufficient to remidy the problem.

Too little too late, and how many times have we heard that from the German Veterans in publications.

Regards
Tom
Oh absolutely Tom. Operationally the Me262 was too little, too late. But the idea of using the Me262 in a fighter-bomber role is not as deluded as once thought.

 

Gotthard,

Yes, the Me 262 did cause problems with bombing front line allied airfields, the planes came in fast and reasonably low and were not seen or heard until the bombs were exploding.
Again, not enough to be anything other than a nuisance at this stage of the war.

We have to be thankfull of the Bomber Offensive and causing disruption to the manufacture and especially the destruction of fuel for the planes.

Quite a number were grounded through lack of fuel.

Regards
Tom