The Buffs in Italy (Summer 1943)

Hi,

I’m new here so forgive me if this isn’t the right group, but it felt the most appropriate.

My wife’s great uncle Wesley Saker (14284946) served in the Royal East Kent Regiment 5th Battalion during World War Two. He was shot in the pelvis in Sicily (we think) but died sometime later (possibly up to 2 weeks) of his injuries or infection. He is buried in the Florence War Cemetery.

His CWGC record is here: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2379367/wesley-john-charles-saker/

I have been searching and failing to understand more about what The Buffs were involved in at that time, and find out where he may have been shot and then taken.

Hopefully someone may be able to shed some light on things for us?

Thanks in advance

 

Welcome to the Forum,

The Buffs were with the78th Division but they were in the area of Florence in 1944 not August 1943 as stated by CWGC.

Looks like a little investigating is required.

Afraid I must call it a day as its midnight.

I have no doubt there will be many on the forum who can assist you in this.

I will take a look tomorrow to see what transpires

Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment) - Wikipedia

78th Infantry Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

36th Infantry Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

Allied invasion of Sicily - Wikipedia

 

He was captured in Sicily on 9th August 1943 and died of wounds in German hands on 27th August.

 

Thanks both.

Gary thanks for the info. Any ideas where in Sicily he was captured and where he was taken?

Where did that info come from - would love to do some reading myself.

Thanks

 

Try looking through these threads: 5 buffs (royal east kent regiment) | WW2Talk

Your uncle's name and number have not been here before your thread. Looked to identify a thread and on Google on Buffs taken POW in Sicily and failed.

Eleven others from his unit died on 9/8/1943, all but one are buried on Sicily and he is buried @ Cassino - another POW? See CWGC database.

 

Hi Steve,

It was from the casualty lists on Find My Past. You'd have to get the war diaries to see what and where it happened.

 

Page 74 of Algiers to Austria by Cyril Ray.

 

On 9 August 43 36 Inf Bde were in the area of Bronte, to the West of Mount Etna, having recently been through the town of Adrano (Aderno). There is some information in the 56 Recce diaries here:
resized P1990917 | WW2Talk
resized P1990942 | WW2Talk

 

Faversham News, Friday 19 May 44

 

Thanks so much for enlightening me on all this. We’ve been to visit the grave a couple of time just outside of Florence but this really helps bring it all to life.

I’ll read through everything you’ve sent and look to get hold of the war diaries.

Thanks again.

 

Thanks Gary ,as I suspected.
The German Field Hospitals (Feldlazarett) were sited at least 50 miles from the front lines to avoid Artillery shelling and bombing.
They gradually moved north through Italy, as the Allies advanced, ending the war near the Austrian border.
The Germans looked after the patients reasonably well but lacked antibiotics unlike the Allies, particularly the Americans, who saw them as a way to reduce time in hospital, enabling them to make the long journey home to the USA.

From the CWGC Florence War Cemetery site posting #1 above:
"The site for the war cemetery was selected in November 1944 for burials from the hospitals established in and around Florence but the greater part of those buried here lost their lives in the fighting in this area from July to September 1944".

It wasn't open before this date and probably a good while later..
Four casualties from 67 Field Regt (my point of study) were moved three times.
From Arrow Route Cemetery, to the American War Cemetery at Galluzzo, then CWGC Florence War Cemetery, once it had opened.
I know this from letters that I inherited and subsequent enquiries to CWGC.

There is a concentration form on the CWGC entry for your man.
This might reveal a previous burial possibly near a Feld Lazarette.

The War Graves Commission had problems acquiring land In "Perpetuity" to which the Italian Govt objected at the time.
Smaller Cemeteries were closed and the burials moved to the large War Cemeteries. After hostilities ceased.
Partly to make them easier for relatives to visit in the future.

It might be worth contacting CWGC if you want to go that far.
I found them very helpful in the past.


This form is dated 20 April 1945 (not sure of its significance).

In case you are wondering, 22GRU is the Graves Registration Unit

Someone on the forum may be able to help with the Map reference on the form top right corner.

Ouch! Slight complication here. Just read Gary's Posting again #6 Casualty Report.
.
He Died in Italian hands. I'm not sure about their Medical Facilities, particularly for POW's in their camps.
Generally not very good. City Hospitals seemed to be ok, once under Allied control..
This was all before the Italian Armistice in Sept 1943. When the Germans took control of POW's in parts of Italy under their control.

 

Battleaxe Division by Ken Ford

 

Perhaps Vitellino might be able to help on this.
An expert on POW's who Died in Enemy Hands.

 

First of all, the Map Reference at the top right hand corner of the concentration form is for Florence War Cemetery and does not show the place from which the three casualties were concentrated. The concentration forms with map references for the prior burial of the casualty are only available for non-battlefield cemeteries - such as Milan, Bolsena and Assisi, to name three.

Secondly, if he died as a pow of war in Italian hands it is logical to assume that this was in one of their POW hospitals.

The nearest was at Reggio, bu it was not likely to have been used for Sicily casualties for reasons given above. Nocera near to Salerno is a possibility as is Caserta. See attached list.

However, if he is buried in Florence that would suggest that he had been moved north.

If I were you I would contact CWGC to ask where he was concentrated from.

Two other avenues are also open to you :

Get a copy of his service records

Send for his POW record from the International Red Cross at Geneva (free, but you have to log in within minutes of their opening on 22 January 2024 or you won't be in time to submit your request before they close.)

Vitellino

 

Thanks Vitellino, have requested the service records so we’ll see what information that turns up. Will update the thread with more info.

 

Pleased to read that you will keep us informed. This is a most unusal case. The same applies to the other two soldiers on the concentration form. Major Usher is reported as having died in an accident a year and a half after he was taken prisoner.

I am pleased that you have sent for his service records but in the meantime I strongly recommend that you contact CWGC. I have recently asked a smilar question and received a reply within two days. Knowing the place from which these servicemen were collected and brought into Florence cemetery is the crucial part of this puzzle.

 

Thanks, yes I’ll definitely be in touch with any more info.

I’ve contacted CWGC just now so hopefully will get a quick response.

Thanks for the help everyone.