The Battles for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th–18th June 1944)

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Ramiles, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Hi all,

    Currently looking for best links for and info on events surrounding this fascinating topic,

    According to the short history of the 8th Armoured brigade: http://www.warlinks.com/armour/8th_armoured/chapter_4.php
    "fighting was almost continuous in the area Rauray - Vendes- Tessel Wood and Fontenay; Lingevres, Christot and Le Parc du Bois Londes are also names not easily to be forgotten. The long daylight hours and short nights, interrupted by considerable enemy air activity, disturbed rest and maintenance. Casualties were heavy and 124 tanks were put out of action in 25 days. The Brigade claimed 86 enemy tanks and SPs destroyed, knocked out or captured during the same period."

    All the best

    Rm.

    Focus at the moment:

    1. Images of the allied "camp" on Point 103 - i.e. recon (aerial view on or around a date in June 1944?). Contemporary views? Modern view looking at Point 103 from Tilly, St. Pierre, Cristot?

    A strong sense I get from "streetview" at the moment for example is how difficult it is to find a spot where you can see any distance at all beyond the bocage (hedges and walled roads) - and hence how prime a site church steeples and other tall buildings might be. (Nb. the water tower is well post 1944): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.1...!1e1!3m2!1snj31_DrtfD3UJDDtPYdyWA!2e0!6m1!1e1

    This seems to be the view though from around point 103 south towards St.Pierre (with Cristot off in the distance to the south east): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.1...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szE2CTnQ9R1c5fiGU4Qpkbg!2e0

    2. More detail on specific events on and around Point 103 during June 1944?

    3. Maps of troop placements on specific (suggested?) dates: such as???

    4. Any eyewitness reports i.e. IWM audio links etc. on life on Point 103? i.e. an IWM account by Reginald Osgerby a 24th L Recon troop corporal on life at Point 103 here: Osgerby, Reginald (Oral history) (17967)

    There's a collection of links here on the subject of Tilly-sur-Seulles at the IWM for example: Imperial War Museums
    Nb. there are a lot of links to material at the IWM and I haven't had a chance to go through much of it yet :pipe:

    5. Images of "Hervieu" c1944 and at present? (See thread at: Researching life at "Hervieu" in Normandy in June 1944

    6. The obituary of the Captain Reverend Mark Green: The Right Reverend Mark Green

    Has the following detail: "On D+3 (9th June 1944) he caught up with some 24th Lancers tanks shooting in all directions about seven miles inland. "Directly you dodged one," he recalled, "you found another pointing its gun straight at you – about as dangerous as crossing Trafalgar Square blindfolded. When I found that I had walked along a hedgerow behind which a whole squadron of our tanks was concealed, all with their guns aimed at the level of my head, I felt like having a go at the doctor's whisky." After establishing another aid post on a wooded rise under mortar fire, Green led a night convoy of six lorries carrying rations into the village of St Pierre, where the British were at one end and the enemy at the other. The convoy became lost. One lorry had its back wheels blown off. Fearing capture, he was tearing up all his papers when an officer appeared in a Jeep, asked why he was tearing up his maps, and said: "Padre, this is an invasion not a picnic." - it would be nice to work out what day the ration convoy to St.Pierre took place ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    #2 - Links for "The Battle for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th– 18th June 1944)"

    War diaries of for example: 4/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, 24th Lancers, Sherwood Rangery Yeomany, DLI etc.

    Audio

    i.e. Stanley William Cox SRY (inc. recollections of Point 103):
    Cox, Stanley William (Oral history)

    John Robert Lanes SRY (inc. recollections of Point 103, Geel)
    Lanes, John Robert (Oral history)

    David Desmond Render SRY (inc recollections of St.Pierre, Geilenkirchen, Goch, Bremen)
    Render, David Desmond (Oral history)

    Other weblinks

    THE FORGOTTEN ANTI TANK GUNNERS OF ST PIERRE (Thanks Sheldrake!) : http://www.theobservationpost.com/blog/?p=132

    The Creully Club (Address of website established for all those who served in the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards): 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards - Main Page

    The Durham Light Infantry (DLI in NWE 1945) : http://durhamlightin...teurope4445.htm

    http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA475698
    Pdf: 50 DIV IN NORMANDY: A CRITICAL ANALYSIS OF THE BRITISH 50th (NORTHUMBRIAN) DIVISION ON D-DAY AND IN THE BATTLE OF NORMANDY By ETHAN RAWLS WILLIAMS, LCDR, USN B.S., United States Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland, 1997: Has some detail about events on and around Point 103 and St.Pierre, with a focus on the 50th Div, but plenty also about the 8th Armoured Brigade in there.

    Books

    "None Had Lances" - The story of the 24th Lancers by Leonard Willis
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/None-Had-Lances-Story-Lancers/dp/0951071807
    http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780951071809/Lances-Story-24th-Lancers-Willis-0951071807/plp

    La Bataille de Tilly-sur-Seulles - by Stephane Jacquet (Heimdal): http://www.amazon.co.uk/La-Bataille-Tilly-Sur-Seulles-The-Battle/dp/2840482606

    A Short History of the 8th Armoured Brigade: The 8TH ARMOURED BRIGADE

    An Englishman at War: The Wartime Diaries of Stanley Christopherson Dso Mc. By Stanley Christopherson, James Holland

    Before I Go: Bishop Mark Green : A collection of inspirational writings that starts with the diary of (the later Bishop) Mark Green as a young priest in Normandy (during and after D-day) : Before I Go

    The 12th SS (Volume 1) - by Hubert Meyer: The 12TH SS Volume One

    Maps

    Eastern Flank of the Normandy Bridgehead (June-July 1944): http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/Canada/CA/OpSumm/maps/OpSumm-7.jpg

    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:28118]

    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:28069]
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    #3 – Events for "The Battle for Point 103 and St. Pierre (8th– 18th June 1944)"

    Thursday 8th June 1944

    24th L assembled in Martragny area, "B" squadron of the 24th L is engaged in the western part of the Battle for Putot-en-Bessin (See thread: Battle of Putot-en-Bessin (7th - 11th June 1944) ) in which the 24th L lost about 1/10th of it's effective fighting force and for which the regiment won it's first battle honour). Meanwhile in-spite of enemy opposition from anti-tank guns the Sherwood Rangers (SRY) secured the high ground at Point 103...

    Friday 9th June 1944

    24th L relieved SRY at Point 103 to the north of St. Pierre. During the late afternoon and evening the 8th Btn. DLI (Durham light Infantry) supported by the 24th L and 147 Field Rgt. captured St. Pierre and were joined there by two troops of 288 Anti Tank Battery with their 6 Pdr guns. Then at last light the 24th L less ‘C’ Sqn, who were to remain in St Pierre overnight, returned to the perimeter of Point 103.

    Saturday 10th June 1944 (Map of dispositions on this date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Perch#/media/File:Caumont_Gap.svg )

    The Germans counterattacked St. Pierre in force at first light, causing heavy casualties amongst the DLI in the village and wounding the squadron leader of "C" squad 24th L. The 24th L (less "C" squadron who were already in the village of St.Pierre) left Point 103 and advanced to St.Pierre. ‘A’ Squadron on the right covering the bridge crossing the River Seulles to the East of Tilly and ‘B’ Squadron on the left overlooking Fontenay. Meanwhile the remainder of ‘C’ Squadron's tanks withdrew to the perimeter at Pt 103 to cover the action. By the late afternoon the situation in St Pierre had been restored (and with thanks to Sheldrake please see post#4 The Forgotten Anti Tank Gunners of St Pierre | The Observation Post for extra detail here) and leaving the infantry to hold St. Pierre, together with a Squadron of SRY, the 24th L then moved back to Pt 103.

    Sunday 11th June 1944

    The Sherwood Rangers (SRY) suffered a bitter blow on Pt 103 when a direct hit from a 105mm shell hit the CO's tank "Robin Hood" and killed Major Michael Laycock, the Adjutant Captain Jones, the Intelligence Officer Lieutenant Head, the Recce Troop Leader and the RHQ Signal Sergeant. Major Stanley Christopherson MC. assumed command of the SRY. Most of the 24th L were involved with perimeter defence of Point 103 during the day while ‘A’ Sqn 24th L supported a 4/7th RDG and 6th Green Howard's attack on Cristot, a village to the West (See also thread The attacks on Cristot (10th to 11th & 16th June 1944) ) Nb. The Creully Club has a quite detailed account (including some detailed maps of the 11th June around Cristot) here: The Creully Club - Newsletter

    This night was "Tiger Night" for the 24th L when the Germans attacked Point 103, and knocked out at least 6 of the 24th L tanks. The attack was eventually driven off (NHLp91) when the Germans were caught in the open by the remaining tanks of the 24th L and their Fireflies (Sherman mounted 17-pdr anti-tank guns).

    Monday 12th June 1944 Map of dispositions on this date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Perch#/media/File:Operation_Perch.svg

    On this date the 4/7th RDG are reported to have supported two DLI battalions (6th and 9th) in attacking the village of Marcel and the high ground near to Tilly-sur-Seulles. 24th L were engaged by enemy anti-tank and tank gunfire from the areas of Fontenay and North of Fontenay had one of their worst days' losses of the whole war with reports of 15 wounded including six officers and ten men killed. The war diary of the 24th L also notes that some 24th L tanks were lost to Panzerfausts on a recce on this date (and there is an IWM audio account of such an incident here: Fewster, Robert Thomas 'Paddy (Oral history) (20819) ) and a number of "A" and "B" 24th L squadron members were KIA. At 2230 hrs, after escorting the remaining allied infantry out of St Pierre, the 24th L withdrew to a defensive position on Pt 103.

    Tuesday 13th June 1944

    Seems like a quieter day for the 24th L on "Point 103", one of observation and perimeter guarding. The SRY (having been continuously in action since D-day) were drawn back to the Bayeux area until the 14th to replenish and re-equip. Meanwhile the 4/7th RDG supported the 6 and 9 Durham Light Infantry (151 Brigade) in an attack on the high ground dominating Tilly-sur-Seulles. At this time also, further to the south near to the village of Villers-Bocage the German tank commander Michael Wittmann personally knocked out a large number of British tanks and other vehicles (which by some accounts he had foolishily blundered into without prior recognisance or the majority of his force :pipe: ), but his tank was disabled and in a less noted failed axis counter-attack the Germans lost much the same number of men and tanks and so further advances by them were stalled. (Nb. while largely for the purpose of propaganda Michael Wittmann was a "household" name in Germany - he was not known to the British and his death subsequently on the 8th August, in an ambush whilst crossing open terrain towards high ground, was of little immediate note).

    Wednesday 14th June 1944

    With the SRY having been drawn back to the Bayeux area on the 13th until the 14th to replenish and re-equip, concentrated allied bombing of Tilly, just to the southwest of St. Pierre meant that the 24th L and supporting infantry on Point 103, also moved out of the area and to the rear to Hervieu (For some detail of which see: Researching life at "Hervieu" in Normandy in June 1944 ) Meanwhile 4/7th RDG supporting 6th and 9th DLI attacked the villages of Lingevres and Verrieres, apparently "LINGÉVRES was a classic for ‘A’ Sqn 4/7th RDG when Tpr Mackillop destroyed 5 Panther tanks of the elite Panzer Lehr with 5 shots. Very heavy casualties to the Durhams however were reported in the 6 hour battle; seventy seven killed and more than double that number wounded". Nb there is an account of this battle at: The Creully Club - Newsletter (about 60% of the way down the webpage under "The Battle for Verrieres/Lingevres 14th June 1944).

    Thursday 15th June 1944

    24th L's returned to Point 103, and were involved in active patrolling on both sides of the hill.

    Friday 16th June 1944

    Second attack on Cristot, a village to the west. See also thread: The attacks on Cristot (10th to 11th & 16th June 1944)

    Saturday 17th June 1944

    4/7th RDG in support of Essex Regiment and 6 Durham Light Infantry in attack on Tilly-sur-Seulles through Buchels. Meanwhile "B" squadron of the 24th L were involved in the Battle for the Parc de Bois Londe (thread: The Battles for the Parc de Bois Londe (17th-18th June 1944) ) after which a defended perimeter was maintained until last light when "B" squadron 24th L was relieved by ‘C’ Squadron 24th L.

    Sunday 18th June 1944

    ‘C’ Squadron 24th L's defensive position at Parc de Bois Londe was relieved by a squadron of the SRY in the early morning. The rest of this day was noted as uneventful for the 24th L. at Hervieu (just to the east of Chouain) resting and maintaining vehicles, preparing for movement to Tessel Wood and the events at Rauray. Whilst the 4/7th RDG from the 19th June to the 23rd June are located at Folliot, supporting 251 Brigade near Lingevres and then mobile reserve to 50 Division.

    Nb. the period from 19th-22nd June 1944 was marked by the terrible stormy weather that extensively damaged the Mulberry Harbours north on the Normandy landing beaches.

    See threads at:

    The Battle for Tilly-sur-Seulles - Normandy - June 1944

    Researching life at "Hervieu" in Normandy in June 1944

    24th Lancers - Tessel Wood (c25th June 1944)

    The Capture of Rauray (Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry et alia)

    Defence of Rauray by the 24th Lancers, Tyneside Scottish et alia
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2022
  4. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Lots of gunner great deeds as field and anti tank gunners. Here is a summary of the Gunners on P103 and St Pierre. :Lt Bramald was awarded the DSO for his actions. Anti tank troop commanders did not fight from a tank, but on foot. He indicated targates out of range of his 6 Pdrs by climbing onto the outside of a Firefly and attracting the attention of the commander. (possibly from 24L)

    http://www.theobservationpost.com/blog/?p=132

    oops _ I see you had already found it...
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  5. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    I have found these Air Photos of Cristot taken on the 24th June interesting because you can see the tank tracks made in the wheat fields during the attack. You can see where the tanks have moved into extended line presumably to shell the church steeple, and where they have to negotiate the thick bocage. Lots of shell and mortar craters. It is good to compare them with Google maps.

    http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-54-3-431?search=keywords/Cristot&free-text=yes

    Also from 4th\7th Dragoon Guards - Creuilly Club

    http://www.creullyclub.freeuk.com/frameset.htm

    Issue 36 dated September 2011 has an account of the 11th June attack on Cristot. Lots more interesting details in the rest of the journals.

    Regards,

    Will.
     
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks Will "Wessex_Warrior" - I'll try to combine this (Cristot view) with a "base" map at some stage :)

    By the way, this one is also really interesting: Cristot; Lower Normandy; France | NCAP - National Collection of Aerial Photography (Frame 4014) as it shows more of Hill 102 and even starts to show the Chateau at Parc de Bois Londe as it was on the 24th June 1944 (according to Meyer it was sadly blown up about a week later and most of the trees in the parc were knocked down). :( The prior frame to Will's 4013's - 4012 shows the area a little more to the east (but is still mostly of Cristot), the whole area to the south and east of Cristot looks like it's had a very bad case of whitefly. http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/fruit/cardins_wfly.htm :rolleyes:

    Now in terms of mocked up troop maps, bearing in mind that there is already a very nice map of dispositions in this vicinity at: http://www.theobservationpost.com/blog/?p=132 for the 9th-10th June, I'm trying to think of other "particular" dates that it would best make sense to focus on at this stage.

    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:28206]
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  7. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The finding aid on the NCAP site is very clunky and slow. I made my own index map.

    This is the section you are in.


    Each 'point' is roughly 4 images apart. Example point directly below Cristot is 400 0283 4013. Next point to left is 400 0283 4017

    [​IMG]






    This whole section is the 400 0283 sortie. Putting that in the search box top right at NCAP gives you 853 photos from 30001 to 4441.

    The runs are from top to bottom on my index:



    Blue = 4001 to 4071 and you need 4006 to 4026.

    Pink = 3001 to 3071. you need 3006 to 3020

    Purple = 4073 to 4166 You need 4095 to 4110.

    Black = 3099 to 3166. You need 3099 to 3115

    Giving that in the order they appear on the NCAP site is

    3006 to 3020, 3099 to 3115, 4006 to 4020 and 4095 to 4110.

    Go through the 0283 sortie looking at those numbers
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks, I've also been trying to use this: http://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/accueil

    To look at some of the "old" aerial shots from the later 1940's stored on there having been notified by Pat Curran that there were a handful of tank wrecks still "extant" and to be found in 1945 aerial pics including a number of Shermans around Rauray and the Tessel woods. i.e. The frame, marked '19.37 - 901V C.D.P.16' in the 5th 1945 sortie from the left. They are (mostly) on the eastern side of the D139, a few hundred yards south of the village, and include a turretless tank wreck.

    And also see: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57173-24th-lancers-tessel-wood-c25th-june-1944/page-2 at post #43 for the attached thumbnail sketch showing a Sherman tank marked as at point E which was found to the southeast of Tessel Wood, and looks to have been an "A" squad 24th L tank lost with several crew members on the morning of the 26th June 1944.

    By the looks of the recon focus of the time (i.e. 24th June 1944) they were very much only interested in all points south of a diagonal below Tilly to Putot and there isn't a recon shot yet known over St.Pierre or Point 103? I'd be interested to know how much like an old fashioned armed camp Point 103 was made to look like. I'm not sure yet if there were ever any photos taken of the point 103 camp area? And all the tanks that must have been kept parked up there. One imagines something like a circle of wagons - but with tanks instead of wagons and with their guns all pointing out

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks all for contributions on this one!

    Right now I keep imagining what a Steven Spielberg film about "life on Point 103 and in St.Pierre" would be like ;)

    And I am thinking about the last half of "Saving Private Ryan" But with slightly more Brits there !
     
  10. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    I think you have nailed it.

    It IS pretty close to the last 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and gives the lie to the aside about the Brits making tea in front of Caen.

    Other contenders are Lingevres on 14? June
     
  11. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    Re tanks. There is a good view of the debris of Worthington Force that shows the tanks all inside a field and lining the hedgrows to fire outwards.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    24th Lancers / 8th Armoured Brigade inspired film? Believe it or not, it was discussed but was considered not box office material enough....no Americans etc etc. Apparently someone had read None Had Lances and realised that it was a good story! Although possibly an urban myth, it is a fact that 24th Lancers were present at the Premiere of Saving Private Ryan in the form of at least Roy Tomalin (who was wounded at Loucelles) and possibly others.

    M Kenny
    What was Worthington Force?
     
  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Even though it is marked as Juvigny-sur-Seulles; Lower Normandy; France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvigny-sur-Seulles (a small village to the south of Tilly) this CRAF photo recon seems to show a good view of Tilly and a large part of St.Pierre on the 24th June 1944: http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-54-3-436?search=keywords/juvigny-sur-seulles&free-text=yes

    Here's one just to the west of Tilly: http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-54-3-437?search=keywords/juvigny-sur-seulles

    & this one is more centered around Juvigny (south of Tilly) itself: http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-54-3-19?search=keywords/juvigny-sur-seulles
    Whereas this one is a bit more to Juvigny's east: http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-54-3-18?search=keywords/juvigny-sur-seulles
    With the cratering to the south-east apparently concentrated around Vendes.

    By the 24th June of course the front line had been shifted south (somewhat around where the "purple" recon line is in "m kenny's" post #7 above). There's a lot of cratering in the fields to the southeast of Tilly, in the area of the Chateau de Tilly, one assumes with good reason as it would seem that from that area fire could be directed into St.Pierre from across the Seulles.

    A search for images of "Chateau de Tilly-sur-Seulles 1944": https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Chateau+de+tilly+sur+seulles+1944&es_sm=93&biw=1280&bih=685&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=u-4rVZWBCNHcaKSSgCA&ved=0CDQQsAQ

    Brings up a few "interesting" clues, as well as a lot of "generic" WW2 pics from across the whole of Normandy.

    I'm not sure if it makes "sense" to start a thread specifically for Tilly-sur-Seulles, I've seen enough of Lingevres though to think that something might be warranted there. One particularly big problem though is a lot of the "places" that get talked about a lot in reports are not always "easy" to find on any particular map, for any one just reading a report. Hervieu for example is regularly "mentioned" in the war diary of the 24th L - but nr. Chouain it hardly ever appears on a map, and it's importance and the reasons for its obvious "utility" are not exactly made clear, and this can be very confusing if you don't know where a particular place is, or why some places are "significant" whereas others are not.

    The river Seulles is obviously particularly important here, and some areas are too boggy for tanks. Additionally some places have bridges now but lacked them (for different reasons then - and it's not always easy to know exactly what's changed) and landmarks like large houses (inc Chateau), Churches (with Steeples) and prominent hills take on far more prominence in a time of war than they have now in a time of peace. Plus a lot of the wooded regions and orchards that were more prominent then have been cleared now.

    Tilly though was obviously a tough not to crack, hence the "delay" at St.Pierre and on Point 103 and all the tough work in the small Bocage villages there abouts as a route through or around this blockage in the road was sought.
     
  15. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Just reading this obituary (from 2009): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/religion-obituaries/6224060/The-Right-Reverend-Mark-Green.html

    "On D+3 (9th June 1944) he caught up with some 24th Lancers tanks shooting in all directions about seven miles inland. "Directly you dodged one," he recalled, "you found another pointing its gun straight at you – about as dangerous as crossing Trafalgar Square blindfolded. When I found that I had walked along a hedgerow behind which a whole squadron of our tanks was concealed, all with their guns aimed at the level of my head, I felt like having a go at the doctor's whisky." After establishing another aid post on a wooded rise under mortar fire, Green led a night convoy of six lorries carrying rations into the village of St Pierre, where the British were at one end and the enemy at the other. The convoy became lost. One lorry had its back wheels blown off. Fearing capture, he was tearing up all his papers when an officer appeared in a Jeep, asked why he was tearing up his maps, and said: "Padre, this is an invasion not a picnic."

    Which has some interesting detail to add to the idea of "life on Point 103" - but it begs the question (for me at least) as to how one gets lost on the way from Point 103 to St.Pierre or Tilly as there really only seems to be "one way there" ?

    Although quite possibly - back in the day - one would not have been "wise" to have taken a direct route? ({Presumably the Germans were expecting/waiting for people to be coming that way?) - and of course the convoy might not have even actually started out from Point 103 - and somewhere like Hervieu might have been a more likely "start point"?

    The convoy got lost - still doesn't seem like quite what happened there though somehow :rolleyes: ?

    An example on google streetview for the main road through St. Pierre: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Baratte+Nelly/@49.180478,-0.612322,3a,75y,251.56h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sO6SBP0NzrnChYHEq5mHwYQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0xc096015ea88de15f!6m1!1e1

    When you trace the route down to the bridge it's almost impossible to imagine having to drive a tank down there, let alone have to fight a battle in one from one end of this street to the other. Something to contemplate, surely.....

    And the bridge between St.Pierre and Tilly: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.177475,-0.619923,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNLJBr9IhVjRr6K_LLPGjZA!2e0!6m1!1e1

    (Not at all what I'd "expected"!)
     
  16. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    I've been researching Hervieu this evening. According to a map dated late 1944, the area between Chouain, Audrieu and down the valley towards Point 103 was fitted out as some sort of railhead with sidings and buildings with a branch off the Bayeux-Caen railway in the general area of Audrieu Station. Clearly an area of great activity and, most importantly, on the hidden side of Point 103 so ideal for use as a Rest Area, Depots, etc. I've no idea when the sidings etc were built but it must have been in the period June to October 1944. All this is long gone but a quick look at a maps app shows areas of ground disturbance with lines reminiscent of what you would expect with a railway. I need to check this in more detail: I don't want speculation to suddenly become fact without proper validation (speculation plus validation = fact. Speculation without validation = potentially misleading guesswork/what-if/speculation).
     
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The 1947 view of the area west of Adrieu

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Interesting, but just so we don't drift off (too far) the topic of Point 103 and St.Pierre here, is this what those at the time meant by Hervieu: Researching life at "Hervieu" in Normandy in June 1944
    or something entirely "different" that we might term some "heavy" encampment or "new" depo in west Audrieu?

    I can't quite seem to orientate this view (i.e. in post 17) above to a modern view (in link below)
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...2!3m1!1s0x480a52107eaf6dab:0x0a0c144ad6677090

    As particularly the triangular feature in the lower right of the (post #17) doesn't seem to match (as I'd expect it to) anything for example I can currently see in Andrieu and looks almost exactly like a 1947 "version" of modern day village of Hervieu, albeit with still some very obvious differences apparent there, one of the biggest differences being I can't seem to pick out in the post 17 above where a main Bayeux - Caen rail line would be, where as it is obviously far more marked in the modern version, but the French rail line has probably been "seriously" upgraded over the last 70 years (unlike British rail most probably ;) )

    It does become clear though if in post 17 you turn the shot 180 degrees so the bottom is north and the top south... that way lower right can be Hervieu and top left Andrieu :) and then eureka!

    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:28209]
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  19. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Slight mystery - aka name "that village" and who "owned" that tank (slightly more than Britain might be required ;) Hopefully looking for regiment here :) )

    Well, this has a "feeling" of St.Pierre about it but the caption just reads:

    "Sherman Crab flail tanks moving up through a village towards Tilly-sur-Seulles, 13 June 1944": http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205205860

    Also (and in a similar vein) "A Sherman flail tank advances through a wrecked village on its way to Tilly-sur-Seulles, 13 June 1944": http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204576

    This is what I have currently got for Tuesday 13th June 1944 : Seems like a quieter day for the 24th L on "Point 103", one of observation and perimeter guarding. The SRY (having been continuously in action since D-day) were drawn back to the Bayeux area until the 14th to replenish and re-equip. Meanwhile the 4/7th RDG supported the 6 and 9 Durham Light Infantry (151 Brigade) in an attack on the high ground dominating Tilly-sur-Seulles.

    So it might be a 4/7th RDG somewhere like Marcel or Buceels, rather than "an another" regiment (i.e. like the 24th L) in the vicinity of St.Pierre.

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  20. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

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