Book Review The Battle of the Bulge: Britain's Untold Story

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by Owen, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just ordered this.

    The Battle of the Bulge: Britain's Untold Story by Charles Whiting.
    Only about a fiver so something to read at work.
    I thought the title a bit OTT as the British involvement in the Bulge is hardly a secret.
    I've enough Divisional Histories to read up on what the British did in that battle.
    This bit of the blurb is utter rubbish.
    The British role in the Battle of the Bulge simply does not exist on paper.

    Read a few reviews on it here.
    Amazon.com: Battle of the Bulge: Books: Charles Whiting
    Seems to get bit of a slating.

    I bought it mainly to read the...
    ... eyewitness accounts from British, American and German soldiers, even Belgian civilians, this book sets the record straight, telling the true story of the role the British played in this key defeat, and the hardship and suffering they had to endure.

    Anyone else read it?
    I did think of cancelling the order but I won't let other peoples' negative views cloud my own judgement.
    I hope to call at Hotton Cemetery soon and see where the British fought in the Battle of The Bulge so even if it's not the best book ever it'll be some more background info.
     
  2. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Charles Whiting was more a 'popularist' historian than an academic. His books rarely quote original sources, and I have found errors in several of them. However, he does tell a good story, and he was a WW2 vet himself. And his books must have been read by thousands.
     
  3. uksubs

    uksubs Senior Member

    I read the book a couple of years back & found it a good read :huh:
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I've just looked a brief biog of Whiting up.
    We went to the same school; You learn something new every day ;).

    Haven't read one of his for a fair old while. Good readable style if I remember, and sometimes I can live with a few errors of content for the sake of something actually written in English.
     
  5. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    I've got a couple of Whiting's works on the shelf. I remember enjoying reading them, always worth a couple of quid at a car boot sale. I had assumed he was American.
    Not seen the British Bulge book though. I would be interested to hear if it's any good.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just arrived.
    One error straight away.
    Photos of Churchills labelled 29th Armd Bde.
    Er...no they had Shermans.
    Maps are rubbish, don't show any British units at all. Just general "Bulge" maps.
    I'll get stuck into it later at work.
     
  7. Gibbo

    Gibbo Senior Member

    I'd suggest that whilst the story is known to the likes of us, it probably isn't to many people & that they're more likely to read a book by Whiting than one written from primary sources.
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I thought the Fife & Forfar were part of 29th Brigade? Churchill chaps?
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    No, 29th Armd Bde were 11th Armd Div, they were swapping to Comets when Bulge started , they picked up there old Shermans and went down to help out.
    There was also a F&F unit in 79th Armd Div.
    I've mentioned it before on another thread somewhere.
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I have this feeling I shall be long dead before my required timescale to ever understand army organisations is reached...
     
  11. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    I hate books with maps like that, or have they have maps with locations on them not mentioned in the text and those locations mentioned in the text aren't on the maps.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    page 149 he talks about 2 F & F in their Crocs, rubbish, 2 F & F had Shermans, 1 F & F had Crocs.
     
  13. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    What's wrong with you VP? The organization of the British Army has always been quite simple, if a little off topic, but I'll simplify it for you.

    Some cap badges are grouped into Corps and sub-divided into Regiments, others are grouped into Regiments and subdivided into Battalions.

    Each Regiment (or battalion) is allocated to a Brigade, which is part of a Division and in turn part of a Corps. But not the same kind of Corps as the Corps that is split into Regiments.... that's different. It is a bit of a tradition that Regiments (or Battalions) of the same cap badge don't serve in the same Brigades.... but that's not a hard and fast rule.

    Now each Regiment (or Battalion) is given an Orbat (Order of Battle) so that everyone in it knows how many of them there are, where they should be and what they should be doing. You just have to be careful that you follow the right Orbat as they are different for peacetime and war.

    Once you are at war and have been built up to your wartime Orbat, things might change for different operations due to Atts and Dets. That means your Orbat can get bigger if you have other units attached. Then you get a + after your unit name on the commander's map, and that's good, or some of your Orbat gets detached and put on someone else's Orbat. You then get a - after your unit name on the big map, and that's not at all good.

    It's all to do with Orbats, Atts and Dets, and it's called organization, which the army are by all accounts very good at (?)

    So, when you read in a history book and it says that a unit was involved but the picture doesn't show the equipment (or uniform) you were expecting, you really have to find out if it was THE unit, the unit - or the unit +, in which case what units or sub-units were attached, in what strength and what equipment did they bring along to the battle. I'm not saying that it is the case this time, but it sometimes brings up pictures or reports of units using equipment that they shouldn't have been at the time.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    So that's all perfectly clear then :unsure:.
    I can handle the basic structures; Regiment, Battalion, Brigade, Division, Army etc. It's the sheer level of detail people retain regarding actual wartime specifics that never ceases to amaze me.
    The detaching and re-attaching always seems deliberately put there to confuse me too, I get in a hell of a mess sometimes trying to work out who was where & when and yet some people just seem to grasp it straight away... I think of them as 'The Regi-mentalists', (they know who they are ;)).

    I suspect it's down to any number that isn't in some way associated with a vehicle immediately falling out of my head.
    That, or the other possibility; that the military might just be intentionally obtuse...

    Imagine that! :mellow:
     
  15. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    PLant Pilot's explanation :wow:
     
  16. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Well I certainly glad to be able to have helped :lol:


    The military 'obtuse'? Never! :huh:
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    That page 149 of the book I refered to describes the attack at HUMAIN.
    Maybe some of Crocs from 79th Armd Div were attatched to 2 F & F ?
    Anyone else know anything about the fighting at Humain?
    The 34th Armoured Brigade were sent down to the Ardennes too, I suspect the mis-captioned photo is if them.
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As a final and fitting gesture of Allied cooperation it may be noted that CCR, faced with a stubborn hold-out detachment in a large chateau east of Humain, called on the flame-throwing Crocodile tanks of the Scottish Fife and Forfar Yeomanry to apply the finishing touch to the fight for Humain.

    http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_22.htm

    Has to be 1 F & F from 73rd Armd Div.
    They had Crocodiles.
    They would be the ones in that video of the Bulge that Paul posted last week.

    Oh look I was right.
    2d Armored Division
    ATTACHMENTS
    Sq B Br 1st Fife & Forfar Yeo (Br 79th Armd Div) 25 Dec 1944 - 18 Jan 1945
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    The Churchill in the photo labelled 29th Armoured Brigade is actually 34th Armoured Brigade as it has a 53 with a white line under the tac sign.
    [​IMG]
    Which makes them Churchills of 147 RAC.
    34th Army Tank Brigade
     
  20. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    I had a veteran of that unit with me at Cambrai last November. He fought in the Ardennes; he was telling me they wore just about anything and everything they could find, it was so cold.
     

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