The American M1/M2 90mm Gun

Hi, i was wondering if anyone can provide any stories or usage of the 90 Anti aircraft gun. i Know for sure that it was also used in the Anti tank role like the german 88.

Unfortunately it seems stories of the 88 bury those of the american 90mm, which if i remember right was actually slightly more powerfull than the 88mm. it was also one of the few guns capable of taming the tigers and panthers, making it an interesting artillery piece. also any history on its use as an Anti Aircraft gun and their kills would be appreciated as well

so any info, discussion, stories on the american 90mm gun and its varieties welcome

 

Hello Robotnik,

I am also interested in the 90mm AAgun.
But more from a modelling point of view.

Here are two pictures of this gun in the anti tank role.
Hope they are of use.




All the best

Leon Hassing

 

Love those pictures, especially the top one. I bet it is during the Battle of the Bulge

I've read that they weren't fielded often because air superioty was fairly widespread by the time they were in production and ready to be deployed.

I've never seen a picture of one on a two wheel antitank mount in the field.
Like to, though

Dave

Opps, Just noticed it is labeled Malmedy. so Bulge it is.

 

This website might be of interest.

Antiaircraft Artillery - 90mm Antiaircraft Gun M1, M1A1 and M2

 

90 mm gun set up to cover road in Malmedy sector, Belgium.

 

The AA gun was developed into the 90mm T8 towed anti-tank gun and the M3 tank gun used on the GMC M36 and the T26 Pershing.

Here's the T8:

[YOUTUBE]E7_M4ejKJV0[/YOUTUBE]

Unfortunately, the Germans weren't armed with hillsides. The 90mm's performance was comparable to the Flak 36 88mm, not the later longer 88s. Or about 80% of the 17 Pdr firing equivalent APCBC shot (not APDS).

 

I wonder how much armor it would penetrate then. were they provided with HVAP shells like the 76mm guns?

 

Penetration @ 1000 yds @ 30 degrees:

APCBC:
90mm - 104
17 pdr - 130
88mm Flak 36 - 105
88mm L71 - 169

I don't think the 90mm HVAP shot appeared until after the war when the gun was further developed for the M47/M48.

 

found a little something on the HVAP rounds, apparently they did appear, although a little later

M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53 - Steven J. Zaloga - Google Books

also found a manual for 90mm ammunition, showing pictures of the glacis plate on a panther penetrated by it

Armor-Piercing Ammunition for Gun, 90-mm, M3, Office of the Chief of Ordnance, January 1945 (Lone Sentry)
USA Guns 90mm calibre


so it would have no problem penetrating a tiger at range, though it might have a little trouble against a panther when using regular APCBC ammunition, though when using regular AP ammunition it says it will penetrate the front of a panther up to 1000 yards

 

Never thought to look on LoneSentry - that's a good find.

 

Unfortunately, the Germans weren't armed with hillsides.

Phrase of the month

 

yet i still can not find any records of 90mm guns taking out any tanks, or even aircraft or any kind of enemy target.

i would at least imagine that some tanks would have been engaged by them during the Ardennes Offensive, what else could have destroyed all of those tigers and king tigers. i remember reading that many of them were taken out by AT guns, but i dont think either the 57mm or the 3in Anti tank guns would have the power to stop a king tiger

 

yet i still can not find any records of 90mm guns taking out any tanks, or even aircraft or any kind of enemy target.

i would at least imagine that some tanks would have been engaged by them during the Ardennes Offensive, what else could have destroyed all of those tigers and king tigers. i remember reading that many of them were taken out by AT guns, but i dont think either the 57mm or the 3in Anti tank guns would have the power to stop a king tiger

The site I mentioned before "Anti Aircraft Command" has a section on unit histories (Antiaircraft Command - Unit Histories). It's still a work in progress but you can find examples of the 90mm being used in action.
For example I looked at the history of the 602d Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Semimobile) which used the 90mm and it discusses aircraft claims, pilotless aircraft claims (PAC) and even mentions the Battalion's AT role. I'm sure if you went through some of the other unit histories you'd find something useful.

 

found a story where one from the 143rd AAA knocked out a tiger during the ardeens


Battery "C" turned east and south from Aywaille and set up anti-mechanized defenses in the vicinity of Stoumont. In connection with the 119th Infantry of the 30th Division, "C" Battery provided the immediate defenses for the road net leading to Aywaille from the east. Early next morning, Charlie attempted to move Gun 4 to a more advantageous position in the town of Stoumont. The gun became mired in mud and while the men worked to emplace it, enemy fire destroyed it, together with the M-4 tractor. The crew of the gun were evacuated and fell back as infantry to the vicinity of the next gun. At 0730, Gun 2 which was emplaced in Stoumont, engaged a Mark VI tiger tank at a range of 40 yards, knocking it out and setting it afire with seven rounds. The crew of the tank were completely destroyed. Here a major engagement was developing. A mortar shell landed in a US halftrack, which was parked in the vicinity, setting off its ammo and the 90mm ammunition of Gun 2. This destroyed the gun which had to be abandoned in the face of the enemy advance. The gun crew took their place as infantry along with the crew of Gun 4.


and another where a beutepanzer sherman was destroyed by one and a few other tanks

At approximately 0830, liaison parties were received from the 743rd Tank Bn and the 119th Infantry. Div which indicated targets in the La Gleize pocket to fire upon. What a thrill the men felt as their first rounds were fired and a camouflaged tiger tank shot up in flames, "B" Battery's first destroyed tank. As fire was delivered on this first tank, it was noticed that there were two other tanks moving in the bushes. Fire was shifted to these two targets and they were destroyed. Finally, fire was directed at various other suspicious looking targets with the result that several small dumps and one enemy-manned Sherman tank was destroyed. During this engagement 42 rounds of 90mm ammunition was expended. Cease fire was given so that elements of the 743rd and the 119th could move in and mop up the pocket. Later in the day, around 1200, "B" Battery in conjunction with the 639th, opened fire and shot down a ME-109 in flames.


I guess the 90mm was also a great answer to the king tiger

"
[FONT=&quot]Moving into positions under cover of darkness, the 90mm guns of the 143rd, with practically no infantry support, brought to an abrupt halt the breakthrough aspirations of German Armored Force commanders in the above area. The Bn. becoming, in effect, the front line until the arrival of the 82nd Airborne Division of the XVIII Airborne Corps from the rear, when its guns became the rallying point and later the line of departure for the attacking infantry of the Corps. Twelve German Royal Tiger M-VI tanks and their American uniformed crews were definitely destroyed by the 143rd AAA Gun Bn in the vicinity of Stoumont Station and Stoumont alone. No prisoners were taken, while many other tanks, armored cars, assault guns and motor vehicles were found which gave evidence of being hit by 90mm fire in the La Gleize pocket. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Attached to the 30th Infantry Division of the XVIII Corps on 23rd December 1944 in the anti-tank mission, the 90mm guns of the 143rd leap frogged ahead under cover of the thick fog prevailing during this period, seeing out and destroying German Royal Tiger tanks and closely supporting the assaulting infantry attacks of the Corps, which converted the 'Ardennes Bulge' into the 'Ardennes Bubble.' [/FONT]
"