The 8th Battalion Sherwood Foresters in Norway April 1940

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Steve Foster, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Excellent photo upgrade. I guess the German 148 Brigade had a few years training and experience behind them by this stage? They look well equipped and ready for anything.
    B
     
  2. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Should any Member be interested in the details of fighting at Tretten then glance at:

    HyperWar: The Campaign in Norway [Chapter VII]

    also this rare Propaganda movie about the Norway Campaign:

    Kampf um Norwegen - Feldzug 1940 : Martin Rikli and Dr. Werner Buhre : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

    "Kampf um Norwegen - Feldzug 1940" (English: Battle for Norway - 1940 campaign) is a 81 minute-long German documentary directed by Martin Rikli and Dr. Werner Buhre by orders of the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. Produced in 1940, the movie follows the Invasion of Denmark and Norway in the spring 1940. For unknown reasons, the film was never shown in Germany. It was considered lost in its entirety until it surfaced at an Internet auction in 2005.

    regards

    Oliver
     
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  3. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Hi Oliver
    I had a look at the movie; hubby and I loved the opening titles! The footage is really interesting. Steve might also be interested in all the Navy footage. I wish it had subtitles! Will have to learn German.Thanks
    Barbara
     
  4. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    I was at the NAs yesterday looking through the more obscure files about the Norwegian Campaign in 1940. I came across three documents that illustrated the scale of the defeat, particularly "Sickle Force" of which 148 Bde (8 Sherwood Foresters and 5 Leicesters)was a part. 148 Bde was meant to hold and defeat the German Army Group Pelengahr after first contact at Lillehammer but only managed to stage a fighting withdrawal until being completely destroyed at the battle in the village of Tretten on 23 April 1940. Only stragglers made it back to the port of Andalsnes where they were picked up by the RN.

    The first document is marked secret and gives the strength of Sickle force. Against 148 Bde strength, a staff officer has scribbled some words which I can't completely read but is something like: "We have heard that they have rescued 400...altogether 1000 casualties". As this was the first contact with the German Army of the war, this news must have been a complete shock to the Army Staff back in Britain and given them an idea what they were up against.

    The second is a signal from HMS Arethusa to CinC Fleet giving the stats of those they had rescued (under fire) at Andalsnes on 1 May 1940. Only 42 unwounded men of the 8 Sherwood Foresters were embarked, the remainder, about 160 (only 200 made it home from the battalion) must have been part of the 812 walking wounded embarked.

    The third is a secret order giving leave and travel arrangements for the survivors of Sickle Force once disembarked in Scotland. The last paragraph illustrates the fact that survivors were not allowed to tell anyone about the scale of the disaster that happened in Norway. The British public were completely unaware of it and thought the rescue of the BEF was the first defeat of the British army by the Germans.

    Steve

    Sickle Force Estimated Strength.jpg

    P7280006.JPG

    P7280008.JPG
     
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  5. Jasonmayfield

    Jasonmayfield Junior Member

    Hi Steve,

    My Granadad, PVE James Mayfield, from Newark (4976771) was in the sherwood foresters and went to Norway and probably Knew your father. The only story I remember him telling me is of being overun by the germans and at night time he put on a german greatcoat (dead german) as he was freezing and crept through the german lines trying to get back to his own soldiers (remnants of the battalion) as the majority had been killed. He got through and as the temp rose in the day the coat thawed out and was soaked in blood. He tol me there were only a small number rescued of which he was one. He then returned to enniskillen where he met my grandmother. He was transferred to the 2/5 and went to North Africa and was captured in 1942/3 (not sure) and remained prisoner first in Italy and ended up in Stalag 8b Teschen. An awful place where he worked in the mines. not sure if he was on the awful death march but he was 7 stone when liberated by the allies. I cannot comprehend having been through all that by the age of 25 but i genuinely believe those guys were made of stronger stuff. Would love to get any more information.

    Regards

    Jason Mayfield
     
  6. BarbaraWT

    BarbaraWT Member

    Hi Steve,

    My Granadad, PVE James Mayfield, from Newark (4976771) was in the sherwood foresters and went to Norway and probably Knew your father. The only story I remember him telling me is of being overun by the germans and at night time he put on a german greatcoat (dead german) as he was freezing and crept through the german lines trying to get back to his own soldiers (remnants of the battalion) as the majority had been killed. He got through and as the temp rose in the day the coat thawed out and was soaked in blood. He tol me there were only a small number rescued of which he was one. He then returned to enniskillen where he met my grandmother. He was transferred to the 2/5 and went to North Africa and was captured in 1942/3 (not sure) and remained prisoner first in Italy and ended up in Stalag 8b Teschen. An awful place where he worked in the mines. not sure if he was on the awful death march but he was 7 stone when liberated by the allies. I cannot comprehend having been through all that by the age of 25 but i genuinely believe those guys were made of stronger stuff. Would love to get any more information.

    Regards

    Jason Mayfield

    Hi Jason
    That's an amazing story of survival. I think Steve is away at the moment, but will be really interested to reply when he gets back.
    Regards
    Barbara.
     
  7. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi Jason and welcome to the forum. Dad (Sgt Foster) was a Newark man born and bred - he lived at 32 Bowbridge Road before the war and for a little time after the war until he and mum moved to Grantham where I was born. His Army number was 4976755, very close to your Grandad's number so they probably joined up together at the TA Centre in Newark.

    B Company and HQ Company were the Newark Companies, your Grandad would have been in one of those (probably B Company) and both were in the front line in the fighting around Rindheim Farm at Tretten. Dad was in B Company until transferred to Brigade Staff as the Brigade Clerk; Brigade Staff also formed a fighting platoon at Rindheim so they would certainly have been there together.

    It sounds like your Grandad was in the rock sangars at the edge of the field by the farmhouse with the rest of B Company (see my photos from my visit) when they were overrun by the German tanks and ski troopers on 23 April; the Germans then advanced on to the village of Tretten about two miles to the rear where a second battle developed. The Foresters in the forward Rindheim position continued to fight until sunset even though by then they were two miles behind the front line; by this time they had run out of ammunition and were ordered by Lt Col Ford to attempt to break out in small groups to reach the Brigade position at Tretten. Some waited until dark and evaded the Germans in the mountains, many were wounded and remained where they fell (like my Dad and your Grandad) until picked up by the Germans and some attempted to retire to the main Brigade position in contact with the enemy and were either killed or captured. As you know, the 8th Foresters were destroyed as a fighting unit that day as were the 5th Leicesters, their sister Battalion in 148 Brigade. All the books I have read on the subject agree that the TA soldiers did their best under the circumstances but were overcome by a well trained and equipped enemy.

    Most of what I have gleaned from research and visiting the battlefield at Tretten is on the thread, but will send you a PM with my Email address so I can send you a bit more information.

    Regards

    Steve Foster
     
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  8. Magnum

    Magnum Member

  9. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi

    On the Walsall RoH is

    Private 4968099 George Till, 8th Sherwoods

    buried in Lillehammer Northern Civil Cemetery in Grave I.F.2.

    Would anyone by any chance have taken a photo of his headstone ??

    Many thanks,

    Graeme
     
  10. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi Graeme,

    I have attached all of the photos I took of Lillehammer Northern Civil Cemetery CWGC plot when I visited the battle site. I am afraid I do not know which one is Grave IF1 but all of the Forester's graves are at the rear of the plot and the Leicester's are at the front. You can tell the difference by the cap badge insignia on the headstones.

    Will go on the CWGC website and get a plan of the cemetery and we should then be able to pin down which grave it is. Will put it on a separate post.

    I noticed Private Till was killed on 23 April 1940, which would have placed him at the battle around Rindheim farmhouse. I have posted underneath the cemetery pictures, a picture of the field where the battle took place and the rock sangars the foresters were defending when Pte Till was killed.

    Information I have about Pte Till is:

    George, Private 4968099. Born Walsall, Lived Hednesford Staffs. KIA 23 Apr 40 aged 33. Son of William and Alice Till, husband of Lilian May Till of Hednesford.

    I am not sure what a Stafford man was doing serving in a Nottinghamshire TA Battalion where most were from the locality. He may have been drafted in prior to deployment to get the Battalion up to strength.

    Late edit: Graeme, there is no plan of Lillehammer Northern Civil Cemetery on the CWGC website but I think I have worked out which grave is Private Till's. All of the military graves in Lillehammer commence with an I so that can be discounted.

    If you look at my first photograph, row F is the sixth back from the front where the graves become two rows of four, not fives as in the five other rows. IF2 must therefore be the second in from the left or right, depending whether they are numbered from left to right or right to left. If you look carefully at the photograph, the second from the right (IF3) has a Leicester's insignia on the headstone; that is the grave of Pte Coleman of the 5 Leicestershire Rgt. Therefore Private Till's is second from the left on the sixth row back.

    Will try and enhance and post separately.

    Regards

    Steve

    CWG at Lillehammer 2010.JPG

    Lillehammer Cemetery.JPG

    Lillehammer Cemetry.JPG

    B & C Coys Sangars.JPG

    View attachment 92643
     
  11. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi Graeme,

    I am afraid this is the best I could do. I have ringed the grave in the first picture and tried a close up in the second - not very good.

    At least you now know which is Private Till's grave.

    Steve

    PS. Please also see Post 90 at the bottom of Page 9

    Scan0001.jpg

    CWG at Lillehammer 2010 (2).jpg
     
  12. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

    Hi Steve,

    Cheers, many thanks for that. I did look at the photo but could not decide which it was.

    Fascinating thread, by the way,

    Regards,

    Graeme
     
  13. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Hi!
    Great thread with lot of interesting information and photos!!
    /Magnum

    Att. article from London Gazette about operations in central Norway 1940
    http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/LondonGazette/37584.pdf
    Hi Magnum,
    Thanks for the London Gazette article, that is the first time I have read it and it aligns pretty much with what I have researched - an understrength, undertrained, cold and hungry TA Brigade trying to hold a German armoured division. They did their best.

    Steve
     
  14. Magnum

    Magnum Member

    Hi!
    Att. photos from Lillehammer - Nordre Gravlund 1941.
    (With both German, Allied and Norwegian graves)
    After the war, all German graves was moved from local cemeteries to cemeteries in Alfaset Oslo, Solheim Bergen, Havstein Trondheim, Narvik, Botn Saltdal. Allied and Norwegian graves was not moved.
    /Magnum
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit Senior Member

    Couldn't resist a Then and now - using google streetview.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=70118&stc=1&d=1323867364

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=70121&d=1323877525

    Couldn't resist
     

    Attached Files:

    Pieter F likes this.
  16. Magnum

    Magnum Member

    Couldn't resist
    Enormously well done "Then and now photo", can I use it on other war forums?
    /Magnum
     
  17. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

    Enormously well done "Then and now photo", can I use it on other war forums?
    /Magnum
    Magnum,

    OK by me but we have already done that particular "Then and Now" on Post 8, Page 1. If you read the whole thread, a Forester is still alive who was in that platoon marching away from Tretten station - Private W S Burton. His daughter-in-law has the callsign "Dadbilly" on this site so you may want to ask her too to let Mr Burton know.

    Steve

    Steve
     
  18. Magnum

    Magnum Member

    Hi!
    The original "Then and Now" photo is very good!
    and the photo "rabbit" has edited is very unique ...
    /Magnum
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Steve Foster

    Steve Foster Senior Member

  20. Rabbit

    Rabbit Senior Member

    Magnum, Rabbit,

    The photo of the Foresters advancing to contact is not "unique", Rabbit took it from my post at the beginning of the thread. I brought that photo back from the museum at Kvam.

    This thread was started by me after my painstaking research into the 8th Foresters in Norway and the extremely bitter fighting they undertook there. I did it out of respect to those men and to tell their story to a wider audience.

    Rabbit's first post on this site, after no research, was to copy a post from page 1 - very impressive. Could you both play your games on another thread please.

    Steve

    Steve:

    nobody is playing,no one has offended anyone,I just merged a pic,that's all.
    no forum rules been broken.so please be kind and think that you are not alone in this forum,means this forum is not your private garden or your private house.
    Regards
    Max

    Ps. no worries Steve this is my first and last post on this forum,hops I mean on your private forum,hope you happy
     

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