Tanks Alamein.

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by maisiefosse, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. maisiefosse

    maisiefosse Member

    a15.jpg a15 perhaps.jpg sherman b.jpg scan0011.jpg scan0012.jpg m13 al.jpg

    The following are pictures from my father's album, with the overall legend 'British Tanks, Alamein.'
    On the back of the first 2 it says A15 with a question mark.. Are they camouflaged?
    The third says Sherman B on the back, which might refer to 'B' Squadron .
    Then 2 with nothing on the back.
    Then M13 Alamein.
    He was in 3rd King's Own Hussars, so very much involved in the fighting.

    Any info or details is always appreciated. I'm putting together the photos with the diaries, and trying to make sure I get details right. Thanks
     
    Owen, von Poop, smdarby and 1 other person like this.
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Brilliant photo's especially the first two.
     
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    1) and 2) show so-called 'Sunshields', which were camouflage devices to make tanks look like trucks (not to be confused with the other camouflage which made trucks look like tanks).
    3) Is not a Sherman but a Grant tank.
    4) Crusader and Grant
    5) Lord know what that was
    6) Yep, the pride of the Italian army.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  4. maisiefosse

    maisiefosse Member

    Hi Andreas, If photo 6 is 'The pride of the Italian Army' were they actually at Alamein? How come? The album was put together by my mother, well after the war, and I'm not sure how much my father advised her.
     
  5. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Lots of Italians at El Alamein, including the armoured divisions. Ariete was destroyed there.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  6. JackGe

    JackGe Junior Member

    Are we sure photo no.3 is a Grant?

    I'd say Sherman, the 75mm gun looks to be sitting in the turret - too high to be in the hull sponson of a Grant. Also the Grant hull is higher, angular construction, plus access door on the side.

    [​IMG]

    regards,
    Jack
     
  7. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    You're quite right. I flicked between pictures too fast!

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Shooting from the hip, I'd say number 5 might well be a Stuart.
    Something about the scale & remaining shape, possible light cluster and those tracks.

    A challenge to be certain, anyway.
     
  9. JackGe

    JackGe Junior Member

    For No.5 I would stay with Sherman.

    The Stuart has a very large idler wheel, which is not what is seen there.

    [​IMG]

    regards,
    Jack
     
    von Poop likes this.
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Hmmm... Sherman looks more likely.

    Wonder what caused the damage.

    All the best

    Andreas
     

    Attached Files:

  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Blowing it up (in a different way), I think you're right, Jack. You can possibly also see the mounting for the drive sprocket by the lump on the ground, but it might be the sprocket itself, hard to tell.

    Engineer job? Smacks of deliberate destruction when things are that mangled.
     
  12. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    No. 5 is a Grant. Look at the turret ring, just above it is the hatch that sits above the 75mm gun.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Maisie

    The Italians were most certainly at El Alamein 3 as they in fact had more than anyone with 8 Divisions including at least

    ONE Armoured in the Ariete - not sure about the Loretta - to three German Ad's with one Inf Dv and one Inf bde

    Whereas Britain had three Inf and three AD's - Aus - SA - Ind - had one div each and Greek and French had one Bde each

    so the enemy had 14 Divs to Allies 12…

    Cheers
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  15. JackGe

    JackGe Junior Member

    Kevin, looks good to me - Grant it is.

    ------------------------------------

    The other Italian armoured division present at this time was Littorio.

    When comparing the size of forces, looking at named units can be misleading, really have to look at actual numbers of vehicles and men. The Allies had practically double the men and tanks compared to what the Axis could muster.

    regards,
    Jack
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    regards the marking on the Italian tank .
    I'll post this from Bryan Perrett's Wavell's Offensive page 91.

    Italian company markings consisted of painted oblongs, red for No 1 , sky blue for No 2 and yellow for No 3. The number of white bars refer to the platoon, the and the numeral above to the tank itself.
     
  17. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Jack Ge

    Served the Axis right with attacking with insufficient men and materials relying on 8 Italian divisions and forgetting the lessons of Wadi El Halfa - and the fact that Monty was in charge of the Alied Armies

    plus the Afrika Korps was a bit bull headed without Rommel

    Cheers
     
  18. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    good day maisiefoss.advance member.yesterday.02:53pm.re:tanks alamein.great photo's no's 1&2 have camouflaged on them.maybe they used it if stopped for repairs,regards bernard85 :m10:
     
  19. pminotti

    pminotti Junior Member

    At El Alamein were 132° Ariete and 133° Littorio Armoured divisions plus 101° Trieste Motorised division, wich includes XI Tank Battalion.


    In the Photo seems that tanks have been repainted in sand yellow over olive drab. (look at fenders)

    Maybe this could be taken some time before El Alamein because M13 (and all italian armour) after 1941 come in sand yellow directly from factory.

    [​IMG]


    Only the first three batch of M13/40 comes in olive drab.

    The went to 132° Div Centauro wich fought in Greece and late in Tunisia and the others to Brigata Babini early in the war.

    They were mostly lost at Beda Fomm.
     
  20. Albowie

    Albowie Junior Member

    The Blown up tank is a Grant, you can clearly see the M3 Bogies, engine overhang and where the drivers periscope was in the hull in front of the turret. Most importantly you can see the gun mount mount in the sponson. The cause of such a catastrophic effect is probably a demolition charge or the Hull Ammo going up from penetration. I'm going on this being a Demo charge left by the germans who couldn't remove it from the battlefield.
    Al
     

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