Taken POW by the Americans

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by muffin15, May 11, 2010.

  1. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    I am researching my grandads very very confusing history.
    He was Polish and from his records at RAF Northolt he was conscripted into the Red Army in 39 , then taken by The Germans where he stayed for 4 years. I have received a bit of information from Berlin to say he wasnt in the Wehrmacht but that in 11.07.1944 he was captured by Americans in Orbetello in Italy. He was found with no markings, identity or papers. His date of leaving was not reported (i remember him saying he escaped the Americans). He then came to England( date not recorded or where he entered). He was put under general Anders and fought in 4 separate campaigns in Italy.
    Unbelievable that he survived!!:eek:
    But would like to know more abour Orbetello what would the camp have been called? and would his name have been recorded with the Americans? If so what are my chances of finding it? Would they have treated him well?
     
  2. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Hi muffin, Folks tend to be pretty friendly round here so best introduce yourself. Bit about yourself and what your interested in.

    Seems a tangle that....

    Kev
     
  3. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    Hi Kev .
    Thank you nice to meet you!! Well im intrested in finding out more about my grandad so that I might be able to find any family existing around Europe!! Its proving a hard job. Ive been working on it over a year now and I can see many more years of it to come!!!
     
  4. Verrieres

    Verrieres no longer a member

    Welcome to the Forum, No expert on these matters but I believe 143rd Infantry Div cleared Orbetello ,was`nt there some large refinery or Fuel storage depot nearby?Like I said no expert but there are plenty here who are.
    Your Grandfather...are you assuming that he was a Red Army prisoner of the Germans? From how badly the Germans treated the Russians would they have moved any of them to Italy? Were any Red Army prisoners in Italy at this time perhaps Brian will know.
    welcome anyway.


    Just found this on Wiki

    Polish 11 Corps....In 1944 it numbered about 50,000 soldiers. During the three subsequent battles the Corps suffered heavy losses (in the final stage of the Battle of Monte Cassino even the support units were mobilised and used in combat) and it was suggested to Gen. Anders that he withdraw his units. However, since the Soviet Union broke diplomatic relations with the Polish government and no Poles were allowed out of the USSR, Anders believed that the only source of recruits was ahead - in German POW camps and concentration camps.
    By 1945 new units were added composed mostly from freed POWs and Poles forced to join the Wehrmacht, increasing the amount of soldiers to approximately 75,000; approximately 20,000 of them were transferred to other Polish units fighting in the West. After the war the divisions of the Corps were used in Italy until 1946, when they were transported to Britain and demobilised. The total establishment of the Polish Second Corps in 1946 was 103,000. The majority of soldiers remained in exile and settled in Britain

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/II_Corps_(Poland)
     
  5. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    Thank you so much for your reply. Only thing is that the dates just don't tally with the satement my grandad gave.
    I have managed to get this staement it says as follows:
    His name was Mikołaj Łokucewicz and he was born on 7th April 1919. He declared his nationality as Polish and his religion as Russian Orthodox. His civilian occupation prior to service was an apprentice tailor.

    Prior to 1939 he lived in Łozowe, Krzywice, district of Stara Wilejka, county of Wilno, Poland, which after 1939 September campaign in Poland was occupied by the Former Soviet Union.

    According to HIS OWN STATEMENT he was conscripted and served in the Soviet Red Army from 16.09.1940 and then in the German Army (THE DAY AFTER HE LEFT THE RED ARMY) from16.12.1941 TO 11.07.1944, when taken by the Allied Forces in Europe.
    Records in Berlin then say that he was taken at Orbetello on the 11.07.1944 by Americans.
    He escaped and within a month he voluntarily enlisted in the Polish forces under British command with effect from 11.08.1944 and was posted to 21 infantry Regiment, 2 Polish Corps Troops Base.

    He served in Italy in the Battle of Ancona, rear guard of 8 British Army, Action in Northern Apennines and Battle for Bologna/ Lombardy Plain.

    He then came back to Britain of which no record was made.
     
  6. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Seem to be two threads running on this, however, if he fought at Ancona it was on the German side, it was a month before he was captured by the Americans- the other post makes sense now.

    'volunteering' to change sides seems a good idea once you've been captured, he must be fairly unique in fighting for 3 different sides!

    PETE
     
  7. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Best thing I can suggest is to add images of the docs you have, see what we can pick out of them.

    I also understand Red Cross records may cover him if he was a freed pow, although I have never tried them for research.

    Pete
     
  8. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    Hi im not sure how to attach this so have copied and pasted it in. This was a document i had translated it really only covers his time under 2 corps plus a bit of his background:
    Draft Board in Italy

    Recruit list 2407
    English No 30083797

    Born: 07 April 1919 in Łozowe, gmina (parish? cmmunity?) Krzywize,
    district Stara Wilejka, województwo (province? Voivodeship? County?) Wilno

    Names of parents;
    Father ; Jan
    Mother: + ( I think + here means deceased) Nadzieja Żuromska (Żuromska – maidens name)

    Maritial status: bachelor
    In case of accident next of keen: father,Jan in Łozowe

    Height: 171 cm
    Weight: 64 kg
    Torso : 82 cm
    Hair: dark blond
    Eyebrows: dark blond
    Eyes: grey
    Nose: straight
    Mouth: medium
    Chin: (unreadable)
    Face: oval
    Specific features: scar after apendix

    Mother tongue: Polish
    Nationality: Polish
    Relgion: Orthodox Church

    Civil education :
    In 1932 5 classes of primary school Zarzecze (according to own statement)

    Civil proffesion: tailoring student (2 years of studying)

    Rank:
    Rifleman

    Decision of draft boards:
    Last cat. In Poland – didnt have
    Last cat in France –
    Last cat. In Italy: „A”
    Signed by draft board in Italy: category „A” fit for army service

    Assigned to :
    11.08,1944 – 21 ... Piechoty (infrantry)
    29,11,1944 – C W W Panc (armoured units?)

    Military service:

    In G Britain 11.08.1944 enlisted to 21 Infrantry Batalion
    29,10,1944 – moved to C.W.W Panc
    1,01,1945 – reported in CWW Panc and assigned to (unreadable)
    12,03,1947 – enlisted to PKPR in Gane (Polish demobilisation Corps)




    Changes on file:

    11.08.44 – assigned to 21 BP
    17.09.44 – sworn at 21 BP
    29.11.44 – moved to Central Training of Armoured Forces
    28.10.44 – reported to …….
    18.12.44 - enlisted to CWWP
    10.1.45 – assigned to ……..
    16.05.45 – went on official travel to Rome
    21.05.45 – back from official travel to Rome
    06.06.45 – appointed to 3. Army Hospital
    22.06.45 – back from 3rd Army Hospital
    05.01.46 – moved to Command Squadron
    25.03.46 – CWW Panc renamed to CWW Panc (?)
    12.03.47 – enlisted to PKPR
    Polish rank on day enlisted to PKPR – rifleman



    Military schools and courses:

    17.08.44 to 17.09.44 – sanitary course – score: successful
    18.09.44 to 28.12.44 – motorman course - score: very good



    Decorations and awards:

    14.11.45 - awarded as on of the best soldier-drivers at the base of 2nd Corps
    31.12.45 – Star for War 1939-1945 - Star of Italy






    Disciplinary:

    15.03.45 – 21.03.45
    Banned from leaving barracks for period of 7 days.

    Description of offence:
    Lawlessly left barracks during service hours



    Other:

    From German prisoners camp enlisted to II Korpus Wojska Polskiego (2nd Corps of Polish Army)
    12.07.1944



    General qualifications:

    10.01.1946
    1. Level of inteligence : avarage
    2. Discipline: good
    3. Training: driver – very good
    4. Duty loyalty: good
    5. Advantages and weaknesses: good driver and driving instructor
    Overall asessment : good


    Admited to P.K.P.R on 12.03.1947
    and received reg. No 30083797

    Year: 1919
    Health category: “A”

    DRAFT BOARD
    In Poland – didn’t pass
    In France -
    In G. Britain – Draft Board No 3

    Rank: rifleman



    Civil education:

    Date you left your last school or university: 1931
    Name of the school: (unreadable – I guess it says: 7 classes of primary school in Łozowe)
    In years: 1926-31

    Professional courses:
    Tailoring, at tailor workshop, period of attending: 1 year

    In army:
    Driver (motorman), at O.W.W. Panc., period of attending: 6 weeks

    What foreign languages do you write or speak?;
    Russian, Italian, German



    Professional career:

    Employer: Łokucewicz, Łozowe, father
    What did you do?: repairs, alternations - 1931-32

    Employer: father
    What did you do: working on farm - 1932-40

    What was your main job? Repairs.
    List exactly what did you do in this job: repairs, qualification jobs (?)



    What countries did you stay in longer than one year?
    -Russia – 1 year – army service – 40/41
    - Germany – 2 years – prisoner of war – 41-43
    - Italy – 2 years – army service – 44-46
    Do you have British army or civil documents?
    Yes, Army Book 64

    What was a country and place of permanent residence in Aug 1939?
    Łozowe, powiat (district) Wilejka
     
  9. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I can go one better... I took an American prisoner...Seriously. He was lucky to escape with his life
    Sapper
     
  10. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

  11. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    My grandad is on the right. What uniforms are they wearing?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Well it certainly looks like British Army Kit Mufffin, but as to what Units I dont know.
     
  13. muffin15

    muffin15 Junior Member

    It must be taken from his later years then. Thanks so much for that.
     

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