Tactical Recognition Flash (Tac Signs)

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Phaethon, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    I was hoping someone might be able to help me,
    after a long search on this site and the web I am unable to come up with an answer so I thought I would start a new thread on the subject of Tac Signs.

    I am looking for an answer as to how these were organized in Brigades and Divisions in ww2. I know the second number relates to the senority of the regiment in the brigade, but I am unable to work out how the first number was assigned or how the background colours were distributed and what theu were.

    (i) I am specifically looking for the colours of my area of interest: the 1st Guards brigade, I know the numbers for this brigade whilst in the 6th armoured were 61, 62, 63 but I dont know the colours (unless its the standard colors of the guards Bde- which Im not sure is correct in this instance).

    (ii) I am also looking for similar information on the colours and numbers of the 78th Divisions tac signs for its Bdes/Bns.
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Isnt the term 'tactical recognition flash' a modern army thing?

    When you mention 61 62 63 that refers to Arm of Service markings .
    This nicely coloured diagram should help.
    Infantry Division Vehicle Markings

    Here's some images from national archives sent to me by ADM199 years ago
    005 & 006 for Infantry Div
    008 & 009 are for Armd Div.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Attached Files:

    • aos.jpg
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  4. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

  5. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Thank you Ron and Owen, I understand this has kept surfacing on the site for a while, but reading those documents I think I get it at last- and I can honestly say that I havent understood it until now.

    My problem has been that I falsely understood each Division to have a unique flash color scheme and each Battalion to have its own unique Serial- leading to a seemingly limitless number of possibilities. Now however I understand it a lot better, Battalions in each brigade and Division had the same serial numbers and colour schemes for a units place in the Division. So two Flashes were needed: the Seria and the divisional.

    Owen, is there any chance you could post the IWM Cat number for your docs so I can properly reference it? It you dont have it, no worries.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    TNA cat number WO 32/11617.

    Detecting your browser settings

    GENERAL AND WARLIKE STORES: Vehicles (Code 45(F)): History of vehicle marking during war (1939-1945)
     

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  7. brit plumber

    brit plumber Member

    Anyone recognise this one on the butt of one of my SKN Brens, the site mentioned above suggests a Command badge but it dosn't have a specific marking on top.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    1st Canadian Army
    Would be my guess
    Rob

    http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQC2WdOywETxW3_3M_nkDtRNQbk_Pz2cELH32fTRsEZYKIfANp0Zg
     
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It's worth mentioning that the Arm of Service serials were changed from time to time, the most drastic change coming as a security measure after the fall of France as far too many records had fallen into enemy hands.

    Forces in the Middle East also went their own way for some considerable time. It's a complicated matter and records are by no means complete.
     
  10. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Forces in the Middle East also went their own way for some considerable time. It's a complicated matter and records are by no means complete.

    Just as I was about to start researching this subject! :D thanks for the tip, saved me a lot of wasted time.
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Just as I was about to start researching this subject! :D thanks for the tip, saved me a lot of wasted time.

    Please don't let me put you off. The fact that not all the information is currently known is all the more reason to research. The amount that has come to light in response to some idle thoughts in the 1940 section is staggering, particularly what Andrew (May1940) has been able to discover in the archives.

    Quite frankly, the text books of the last forty years are being re-written - someone needs to do it for the Middle East. As a primer, you need Hodges & Taylor's 'British Military Markings 1939 - 1945'.

    If you're interested in something in particular, preferably not at Corps or Army level then you might be lucky with existing sources but it's a bit of a lottery.
     
  12. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Please don't let me put you off.

    Not put me off at all,:) the 1940 thread looks interesting and thanks for pointing out the book, ABE books has a few copies so come payday I'll buy one and start learning, the whole AoS thing has had me stumped for ages - it's about time I increased my knowledge in that area.
     
  13. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Make sure you get the later, larger, 1994 edition published by Cannon Publications. It has much more material, particularly in respect of AoS numbers, than the original 1971 edition (author just Hodges)

    Chris
     
  14. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Make sure you get the later, larger, 1994 edition published by Cannon Publications. It has much more material, particularly in respect of AoS numbers, than the original 1971 edition (author just Hodges)

    Chris

    Thanks, roll on payday. :)
     
  15. RemeDesertRat

    RemeDesertRat Very Senior Member

    Make sure you get the later, larger, 1994 edition published by Cannon Publications.

    Ooooops! just noticed the price has risen considerably for that edition, might have to put a hold on that :D
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList

    There is also the current Warpaint series by Dick Taylor. Vol 3 (not 2, sorry!) covers unit serials (but not the BEF ones yet!)
     
  17. mapshooter

    mapshooter Senior Member

    The numbering regime on vehicles ended c. 1982 when opertional security started to be taken seriously. Colour patch backgrounds ended a decade earlier.
     
  18. mapshooter

    mapshooter Senior Member

    I've been trying to rmeber what the official publsihed source was for the numbering. During WW2 I think it was a pam in the Field Service Pocketbook. After WW2 it was definitely in 'Staff Duties in the Field'.
     

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