T34 Recovery. (And other buried tanks & vehicles)

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor

    Pretty sure it is a real scheme Owen but I agree it looks awful but it obviously was an effective scheme.

    Also one of the most pointless tanks of the war:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Very hard to judge what a 'real' scheme was as I've got some colour pictures from APG in the 50's of stuff still in it's original plumage that you'd tell me I was taking the piss with if I put 'em on a kit, In particular a Luchs that's painted in black crosses and silver spots over an ambush scheme, . I would however tentatively suggest that most of the Kubinka schemes are a bit dodgy. German gear in Museums has tended to aquire distinctive 'museum' schemes.

    Amazing thing about Kubinka is that the German collection is only about 1/3 of what was there. The rest went for scrap in the 60's. Though I suppose Bovington is even more guilty in what it destroyed. APG holds the crown for the worst treatment of it's collection, First war tanks stood outside since the armistice, at least the other museums can blame the different attitude of the past, poor old APG can only claim lack of money.

    (I remember the fuss in the 90's when pics of that Maus started to appear, a great many excited spods.:wacko:)
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    (I remember the fuss in the 90's when pics of that Maus started to appear, a great many excited spods.:wacko:)

    so can I.
    I remember the rumours back in the 80s there "may be " one in the USSR. Oh how the world has changed since then.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    More swampish tank recovery, T34, Pz.III etc.
    Always an interesting site, loads more complete recoveries further down the page including many aircraft, Ju52, 88 188 etc.


    Edit:
    Marder III, 88, SdKfz8, loads more.
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    More swampish tank recovery, T34, Pz.III etc.
    .
    That all looks bloody cold.
    Wonder if Diver had Vodka anti-freeze?
    Very interseting stuff VP, ta.
     
  6. AMVAS

    AMVAS Senior Member

    Pardon, forgot to restore my post deleted due to system crash a few days ago.
    --
    This tank was found in 2002-2003

    http://www.trizna.ru/kv1/photo.htm

    [​IMG]

    http://www.opensea.ru/articles/travel/kvup/
    http://www.opensea.tv/tank_kv/
    http://www.opensea.ru/articles/travel/kv2003/

    Movie: "The Neva bridgehead"
    _ttp://www.opensea.tv/download/kv320x240.avi




    T-38 was found in 2005 in Neva near the same Neva bridgehead

    [​IMG]

    Other URLs:
    T-38 Kirovsk
    (Attention: very slow)
    http://www.po-patriot.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=18

    T-26 found in Vyborg (Viipuri) area
    http://www.vesti.ru/comments.html?id=34561
    (You can see also video, but can't paste link to it, as it's script one just above the photo)
    See also
    http://www.baltic-sunken-ships.ru/page.phtml?id=114

    Regards,
    Alex
     
  7. AMVAS

    AMVAS Senior Member

    Collection of vehicles installed as monuments is here:
    LINK

    This "Katyusha" on STZ-5 NATI chassis was found in one of the rivers and installed in Novomoskovsk (Tula area)
    [​IMG]

    regards,
    Alex
     
  8. Jack King

    Jack King Junior Member

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    14. 09. 2000
    Tanki T34-76 väljatõmbamine Kurtna järvest
    Foto: Meelis Mitt

    [​IMG]

    WW-II Trophy tank

    14 September 2000, a Komatsu D375A-2 pulled an abandoned tank from its archival tomb under the bottom of a lake near Johvi, Estonia. The Soviet-built T34/76A tank had been resting at the bottom of the lake for 56 years. According to its specifications, it's a 27-tonne machine with a top speed of 53km/h.

    From February to September 1944, heavy battles were fought in the narrow, 50 km-wide, Narva front in the northeastern part of Estonia. Over 100,000 men were killed and 300,000 men were wounded there. During battles in the summer of 1944, the tank was captured from the Soviet army and used by the German army. (This is the reason that there are German markings painted on the tank's exterior.) On 19 September 1944, German troops began an organised retreat along the Narva front. It is suspected that the tank was then purposefully driven into the lake, abandoning it when its captors left the area.

    At that time, a local boy walking by the lake Kurtna Matasjarv noticed tank tracks leading into the lake, but not coming out anywhere. For two months he saw air bubbles emerging from the lake. This gave him reason to believe that there must be an armoured vehicle at the lake's bottom. A few years ago, he told the story to the leader of the local war history club "Otsing". Together with other club members, Mr Igor Shedunov initiated diving expeditions to the bottom of the lake about a year ago. At the depth of 7 metres they discovered the tank resting under a 3-metre layer of peat.

    Enthusiasts from the club, under Mr Shedunov's leadership, decided to pull the tank out. In September 2000 they turned to Mr Aleksander Borovkovthe, manager of the Narva open pit of the stock company AS Eesti Polevkivi, to rent the company's Komatsu D375A-2 bulldozer. Currently used at the pit, the Komatsu dozer was manufactured in 1995, and has 19,000 operating hours without major repairs.

    The pulling operation began at 09:00 and was concluded at 15:00, with several technical breaks. The weight of the tank, combined with the travel incline, made a pulling operation that required significant muscle. The D375A-2 handled the operation with power and style. The weight of the fully armed tank was around 30 tons, so the tractive force required to retrieve it was similar. A main requirement for the 68-tonne dozer was to have enough weight to prevent shoe-slip while moving up the hill.

    After the tank surfaced, it turned out to be a 'trophy' tank, that had been captured by the German army in the course of the battle at Sinimaed (Blue Hills) about six weeks before it was sunk in the lake. Altogether, 116 shells were found on board. Remarkably, the tank was in good condition, with no rust, and all systems (except the engine) in working condition.
    This is a very rare machine, especially considering that it fought both on the Russian and the German sides. Plans are under way to fully restore the tank. It will be displayed at a war history museum, that will be founded at the Gorodenko village on the left bank of the River Narva.

    Looking at the two tracked machines, the modern yellow Komatsu dozer is a reminder of how machine technologies have advanced, and the region's prospects of peace and prosperity have brightened.
    Komatsu Times
    (Quarterly News Magazine for Construction Equipment Users - Volume 3 No 1)

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  9. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Am I right in saying that the first tank was a Sturmgeschutz Assault Gun with a 75mm gun? Any info on where it was found?
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    We touched on that very vehicle in this thread Gordon. It was found in Demjanska near Leningrad almost complete, even the stowage was intact (and look at the tracks for a real rarity ;)). It was then parked up in the town while the inevitable red tape was dealt with. During this time it was picked clean of anything that'd come off easily.:( best photo coverage of her came from the czech 'Detektorweb'

    The famous swamp t34 is now a runner, some recent film of her chugging about is just starting to emerge.
     
  11. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Am I right in saying that the first tank was a Sturmgeschutz Assault Gun with a 75mm gun? Any info on where it was found?
    Im not sure there is another one :icon-mrgreenbandit:
     
  12. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    always amazes me the statye of preservation. I dont wash by bike for a week and it looks a right mess, but bury a tank (which lets face it where not that well painted in the first place) and they look like the day they rolled out the factory.

    No oxygen in the mud = no rust

    Kev
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    But leave it out in the open with zero preservation since 2002 (when it was dug up) and the rot starts to set in:
    Aberdeen style standards of neglect... though thankfully APG seem to be getting their act together.
    I've got an account of it's history and loss somewhere, lost it for now, I'll keep looking. Some internet reference to it being sold for $8000!! Surely they missed out at least one zero... I'd have thought the pristine winterketten alone would sell for more.
    stugrust.jpg demjanskstug.jpg stug1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  14. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    :angry:

    If the inside was preserved as well as the outside got to be a peice of archetural heritage, leave outside to rust. If their going to do that they should have left it in the mud where it was preserved.

    Idiots.

    Kev
     
  15. sniper101st

    sniper101st Junior Member

    Thats a real shame they let it get like that I had the pleasure of seeking (so they claim) the last surviving DD tank I must say it was a sight.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Truly upsets me Kev, I presume red tape is as much to blame as anything. I read an account of it's convoluted post rescue story a while back but just can't find the magazine now. If it were here then Bovington, collectors, or even the dreaded English Heritage would surely step in and at least get it under cover.
    Check out the APG site for some truly terrible neglect of unique or near unique vehicles:
    Army Ordnance Museum
    I sent 'em a few quid a while back just 'cos it breaks my heart to see 1st war tanks and ferdinands etc. sat on the same plinth they were dumped on 50-80 years ago (many with cutaway sides only covered by mesh). Greatly pleased to see them spreading the collection about for preservation and building new sheds. (their tiger, Marder, and pz.2(??) are currently 20 miles down the road from me getting some care and attention.)

    Edit: Where is that DD? Bovington has one too, and there's the Valentine DD recently restored of course, lovely old thing.
     
  17. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Great pictures.:point:
     
  18. sniper101st

    sniper101st Junior Member

    Yes thats the one had a great range but as you mentioned a real shame to see them cut up in places felt sorry for the poor old thing actually staring through that piece of plastic that was once canvas, a little more tragic though with the ww1 tanks.
     
  19. Andy in West Oz

    Andy in West Oz Senior Member

    VP, are the tracks on the Sturmgeschutz thing "swamp" tracks for a bigger "footprint" enabling the vehicle to get through boggy conditions? They look similar to tracks on some of the Swampy dozers that I used to work alongside of.

    Criminal to see it's still out in the open. One of us needs to win the lottery! Happens to aircraft recoveries too, most recently the famous PNG B-17E "Swamp Ghost". Admittedly she has always been sitting in the swamp but last I heard, she was sitting on the docks in Port Moresby in bits awaiting the red tape to be cleared.

    Great to hear the T-34 from the lake is up and running. Would have been amazing to work on. Just got an email from a mate in the UK saying he was about to head off and work on a Lysander at Duxford. Don't want to hear the names I called the lucky so and so!

    Cheers

    Andy
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    VP, are the tracks on the Sturmgeschutz thing "swamp" tracks for a bigger "footprint" enabling the vehicle to get through boggy conditions? They look similar to tracks on some of the Swampy dozers that I used to work alongside of.
    They're 'winterketten' mate, indeed for spreading the weight on soft ground/snow/mud etc. Many books, including some really fine ones will tell you they're 'Ostketten' but it appears that they look more like widened normal tracks without the long wedges seen on these ones.
    eg. on a PzIV with 'Ostketten' it'd look like it's wearing Panther tracks.
     

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