Struggling to understand my late fathers Army Service File !

Has anybody else rec'd Army Service Files and then struggled to make sense of them ? Some of the handwriting is impossible to read, and then lots of abbreviations and numbers !

 

Get them posted up on here, Lesley (4jonboy) is the resident Guru when it come to translating service records

 

Just about everyone - good people here will help you if you post as Andy suggests. Brian

 

OK, Thanks for your suggestion, here they are !

 

Hello mcalonan,

My interpretation of service record:

03 Jun 1943: Enlisted in General Service Corps, and at No 21 Infantry Training Centre (Brecon)
14 Jul 1943: Transferred to KOSB (Kings Own Scottish Borderers) and posted to No 10 Infantry Training Centre (Brecon)
06 Oct 1943: Attached to Carrier (Universal or Bren Carrier) Training Centre – Failed (Windermere)
07 Dec 1943: Posted to 5th Bn KOSB
19 Oct 1944: Embarked UK for NWE (North West Europe)
21 Oct 1944: Disembarked NWE
22 Sep 1945: 28 days field punishment, under open arrest, for ‘conduct to the prejudice of’
19 Oct 1945: Returned to duty
02 Jan 1946: Appointed Paid Lance Corporal
28 Feb 1946: Relinquished appointment of Paid Lance Corporal on appointment to HQ 157th Infantry Brigade and TOS (Taken On Strength)
01 Feb 1947: Posted to HQ 5th Infantry Brigade
22 Feb 1947: Posted to 2nd Bn RSF (Royal Scots Fusiliers)
08 Jul 1947: Volunteers to drive for an officer
29 Oct 1948: SOS (Struck Off Strength) 2nd Bn RSF and TOS 1st Bn RSF
15 Jan 1949: Posted to UK pending release from Army
05 May 1949: To Reserve List.

The 5th Bn KOSB were a battalion of 155th Infantry Brigade, 52 (Lowland) Division.
The 5th Bn KOSB transferred from the 155th Infantry Brigade to 157th Infantry Brigade, again of 52 (Lowland) Division, on 12 February 1945. This will partly explain one of the postings.

I haven’t confirmed this, however, it appears that the 2nd Bn RSF were a battalion of the 5th Infantry Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, in February 1947.
A cadre of the 1st Bn RSF arrived in Germany and the 2nd Bn were reversed into it (renamed) on 29 October 1948. This explains the posting from 2nd Bn to 1st Bn RSF.

One anomaly is that he appears to be shown as a ‘Fusilier’ throughout his service with the RSF. However, on the last page you posted, his release from 1st Bn RSF, he is shown as a ‘Sergeant’.

He will have seen action with the 5th Bn KOSB.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Steve.

 

Here are the 5 KOSB war diary refs at Kew. Give me a shout if you want any copying:

WO 166/12596 5 King's Own Scottish Borderers 1943 Jan.-Dec.
WO 171/1320 5 King's Own Scottish Borderers 1944 Jan.- Dec.
WO 171/1321 5 King's Own Scottish Borderers (Echelon III) 1944 Aug., Sept.
WO 171/5216 5 King's Own Scottish Borderers 1945 Jan.-Dec.

Cheers
Andy

 

Steve,
Thanks very much for your interpretation, brilliant

 

Hi Andy,
I would like to see WO 166/12596, could be a good starting point for me as I have never read one, thank you

 

Hi Andy, I will visit Kew and make a start on WO 166/12596, thanks for providing me with the ref number.

 

This might seem a daft question to ask, but I have to ask it....Would a recently enlisted Private have any say as to which regiment they would be transferred into ?
I ask this because having looked at my late fathers records I see he was living in Cardiff when he enlisted, went to Brecon and then transferred to KOSB 5th.

 

Hello mcalonan,

I noticed that his father was Cardiff based, his own address was Burton on Trent and he ended up in a English/Scottish Borders Regiment...

The roll of pre-war Territorial Battalions would have been predominantly of local men, but once the war started casualty replacements came from wherever they were available. This could see enlisted men being posted individually from an ITC to a particular regiment/battalion and in some cases, whole tranches of men serving in one regiment being transferred to another.

When the General Service Corps was brought into being men 'selected' to remain in the Infantry could find themselves sent anywhere; ultimately no choice.

A story: A Serjeant that landed on Gold Beach on D-Day with the 9th Bn Durham Light Infantry had been transferred there from the Commandos, following recuperation from an accident. On leaving hospital he was not allowed to stay in the Commandos and was asked which regiment he wanted to transfer to, he didn't know as he hadn't thought about it. He was then asked where he was from, he answered 'Newcastle' and they sent him to the Durham Light Infantry. So, sometimes choice did come into play. However, in this case, the Serjeant in question was from Newcastle Under Lyme, not Newcastle Upon Tyne, so he didn't get a local regiment.

I think I recall one of the forum's WWII veterans, Tom Canning, saying that he wanted to join a Highland regiment, only to end up in tanks (RAC)...

Best,

Steve.

 

If he was with 5 KOSB in Autumn 1944 he must have taken part in the Walcheren Landings in November 1944 which were designed to clear the Schelldt Estuary and open up the port of Antwerp to Allied shipping

 

Thank you for that Steve, Having taken a closer look at the TA record of service papers [ which I haven't posted on this forum ] I notice something rubber stamped THE ARMY MEDAL OFFICE IV38351 dated 8 OCT 1997, seems to refer to 'special instances of gallant conduct and mentions in public despatches', would you know what this might mean, and how I would find out ? have attached copy for info

 

Hi,

Not wanting to jump on anybodies toes re your above query but I think what has happened is that the 3 "campaign" medals were issued on application in 1997 and the issuing clerk has used a large "stamp" and simply encroached into the portion of the form reserved for mention in despatches and gallantry medals.

I do not believe there is any MID or gallantry award entitlement.

Steve Y

 

Mcalonal

I think Steve Y is correct....... I read the document exactly the same.

Ron

 

I too am having problems with armyspeak in my father's war record - can anyone help? He was posted Oct. '43 to a bomb disposal company of the Royal Engineers in the Middle East, then (as Acting Captain) to the 128 Bridge Company, Royal Army Service Corps from 27 Feb. '44. This is where I get lost - the record looks like this (sorry I cant post it, don't have the technology) :
Po. X2 (1 Gen Hosp.) from RE Pltn. 128 Cps Br. Coy, R.A.S.C. 13 Apr. 44
S.O. X2 (1 Gen. Hosp.) to RE Pltn., 128 Cps. Br. Coy, R.A.S.C. 17 Apr. 44
Po X2 (1. Gen Hosp.) from RE Pltn., 128 Cps. Br. Coy, R.A.S.C. 16 May 44
S.O. X2 (1 Ge. Hosp.) to RE Pltn. 128 Cps. Br. Coy, R.A.S.C. 24 May 44
(And so it goes on for a few more lines, with gaps of weeks rather thandays.)
Can anyone tell me what is going on here? Po. I guess means posted, Pltn. = platoon, Br. = Bridge Company of the 128 Corps, and R.A.S.C. the Royal Army Service Corps.
But what is X2? and S.O.? and why the continual changing over? Was he controlling the supply lines to the hospital? I'm very puzzled!

 

Some info on X lists
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/15663-x-lists-service-records/

 

ARdeo

All very simple stuff - PO X(ii) means he was on the sick list and was in #1 hospital - then SOS ( stuck off strength) hospital and TOS ( Taken on strength)

to his regular regiment and platoon - the same again in May as he obviously flared up once more…not too exciting…

Cheers

 

Thanks very much Tom, I wonder what it was that kept sending him back into hospital - gyppy tummy maybe! I thought it couldn't be that as later in the line it says
Admitted to hospital XII....(for a week)
Discharged from hospital XII (then he had a week's leave, then -)
Admitted to hospital XII (for another week)
Discharged....
Also, it says S.O., not S.O.S. - does this make a difference? Was he "Struck off" the hospital strength as it were because he was being returned to his platoon? What a funny way they had of recording things!
On the subject of the Middle East Force, did they have a lot of medical troubles? I notice my father had loads of injections before being sent there, but mainly typhus.

 

Ardeo

It could have been any one of a list of nasty conditions such as the Impetigo that laid me low whilst at Cassino

http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/24413-the-blues-uniform/

Ron