Storm Boats at Arnhem during Market Garden

I have recently received an email from Canada asking for help regarding the above. 1944 isn't really my area so I thought I'd ask you chaps. I've edited the email below:

I have tried to find plans for the boats used by the Canadians that night, they were called storm boats, powered by outboard motors. It seems there is information on storm boats at the National Archives, but only hard copy.


Just a note storm boats were 20ft by 6ft made of plywood, could carry about 15 infantry men, or a jeep, or a field gun. They are sometimes confused with assault boats, a canvas covered wood frame boat that was paddled, used by the Americans at Nijmegen, as shown in 'The Bridge Too Far' film.

The British Engineers involved in Operation Berlin used assault boats. The film 'Theirs is the Glory' had a scene with storm boats.


I can only find two files at the National Archives on the boats and there must be more out there. The two I have found are:

DEFE 2/1530 Staff requirements for replacement craft for the present 18 and 22 feet powered dories: surf boat development and trials: minutes of meetings; report on US latest type of storm boat

SUPP 4/390 Bridging components, pontoons, storm-boats, assault boats and components, locomotives and components, repair of locomotives

Does anyone know of anymore files at Kew on Storm Boats or Operation Berlin?

Cheers
Andy

 

well he should contact John Sliz, the expert on this:

Storm Boat Kings - Welcome

 

Known as FBE,They are canvas covers assault boats used for river crossings, and to create a very light bridge across water, up to class nine. As at the Escaut canal assault crossing.

FBE Folding boat equipment !

And bloody heavy there were as I know to my discomfort in lugging the damned things up the steep concrete side of a canal under heavy fire.

The boats were delivered at the site by Canadian service corps trucks, who were scared out of their wits at the thought of unloading them under the enemies noses.
(They had never seen live action before) All my sympathy I was always scared stiff !

But bless them the rallied and did the job wonderfully well.

 

Andy,

A couple of Canadian RE Units were involved. Try WO179/3129 & WO179/3130. 20 & 23 Field Coys, RCE. You might get lucky.

Cheers - Rob

 

Hi Drew,

I agree with Philip, John Sliz is your man. He is a member of the forum so maybe you could PM him? He has written a very good book on the subject.

All the best.............

PS John resides in Canada too!

 

Hi Drew,

I agree with Philip, John Sliz is your man. He is a member of the forum so maybe you could PM him? He has written a very good book on the subject.

All the best.............

PS John resides in Canada too!

Ditto

 

More specifically, Storm Boat Kings does have a small plan and cross-section of the storm boat. Perhaps John Sliz has some original drawings on which these were based?

An alternative might be to contact the Royal Engineers Museum - or the Canadian equivalent -and see if they have anything in their archives.

 

Maybe this link is of any help

A Bridge Too Far: The Canadian Role in the Evacuation of the British 1 st Airborne Division from Arnhem-Oosterbeek, September 1944

Cheers

Ron

 

Known as FBE,They are canvas covers assault boats used for river crossings, and to create a very light bridge across water, up to class nine. As at the Escaut canal assault crossing.

FBE Folding boat equipment !

And bloody heavy there were as I know to my discomfort in lugging the damned things up the steep concrete side of a canal under heavy fire.

The boats were delivered at the site by Canadian service corps trucks, who were scared out of their wits at the thought of unloading them under the enemies noses.
(They had never seen live action before) All my sympathy I was always scared stiff !

But bless them the rallied and did the job wonderfully well.

I think you are confusing them with the other boats I mentioned in bold?

They are sometimes confused with assault boats, a canvas covered wood frame boat that was paddled, used by the Americans at Nijmegen, as shown in 'The Bridge Too Far' film.


Thanks all - Whats John's forum name?

Cheers Rob RE War diaries sometimes do have the best drawings of techi stuff don't they ?

 

Whats John's forum name?


Andy, This is him
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/members/johns.html

 

Cheers PM sent - Does his books source any ref's for files at Kew on Op Berlin or Storm Boats?

 

From the bibliography, likely sources are:

Rafting and Bridging - Military Training Pamphlet No. 74 Part III Assault Crossing Equipment (he lists the Canadian version but ours should be here)

Provisional Working Instructions for Storm Boat 20ft MkI - again a Canadian publication.

 

Hi guys,

The best reference that I had for storm boats was talking to the guys in the 23rd RCE themselves. They all agreed that they used the British Storm Boats and not the Assault Boats used at Nijmegen nor the US type of Storm Boat. There is a booklet called, `Engineer Assault Boats In Canadian Service' that I wrote a number of years ago that tells the difference between FBE, SB, Assault Boats and Recon. Sorry for the self promotion. When I get back in a few weeks I can send a copy to the person in Canada that needs the info.
Fyi: all PAMs in Canadian service in WWII were reprints from the War Office in London so they are exactly the same. As far as the records in KEW, they should be more or less the same as the ones in Ottawa.
That's all for now. I'll be back in a few weeks.

 

Provisional Working Instructions for Storm Boat 20ft MkI - again a Canadian publication.[/QUOTE]

This is a report from the 23rd RCE friom their experiences with the boats.

 

They all agreed that they used the British Storm Boats and not the Assault Boats used at Nijmegen nor the US type of Storm Boat.

John

I am somewhat confused by your statement that they didn't use the American Storm boat as I have a document written by Major Tucker which states as follows:
2nd April 1944 - "We start our training. One platoon is building trackway, another a Folding boat equipment ramp, and the third is learning to operate storm boats. These latter are a new piece of equipment of American origin. They are made of plywood, and are designed to carry twelve to sixteen fully equipped men. They are powered by 50 HP Evinrude outboard motors. The motors are very powerful, but we find them most unreliable, except under very favourable conditions."

You will see that Tucker clearly states that the boats they were using at that time were of American origin. I cannot find any reference in this document, which covers Operation Berlin and beyond, to the later introduction of new or different boats.

John

 

nice to see you again Mr Sliz, have a good holiday

 

Can't speak for the Arnhem evac but when 5th Camerons were ferried off the Island by the Canadians they used the Canvas collapsible storm boats.

 

For Operation Berlin, the evacuation of the Airborne division on the night of 25/26th September, they used a mixture of storm boats and Assault boats. For Operation Pegasus 1 on the night of 22/23rd October they used Assault boats and for Pegasus 2 (18th/19th November) they used storm boats. Operation Beaver (Pegasus 3) never materialised but, once again, storm boats were to be used because of the strength of the current at that time.

John

 

John- Do you have any ref's at TNA regarding the above?

 

Drew

The 23rd Canadian Engineer War Diary is WO 179/3130 but I'm afraid that won't give you any specifications on the storm boats.
Tucker's account above comes from private papers.

John