Stg-44

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by easygreen, Jan 16, 2007.

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  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    For those two (Panther & StG.) it's pretty safe to say they were designed & built very much under wartime pressure from start to 'finish'. Neither has much in common with any pre-war work by Germany. I'm often the first to enjoy critiquing chinks in German equipment and supply, but it has to be said there were some first class brains around.

    Good job the 'talent' was never as well directed as it might have been.
     
    von Poop, Apr 29, 2008
    #21
  2. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    Gage, Apr 29, 2008
    #22
  3. jmaccyd

    jmaccyd Junior Member

    A superb weapon that was widely respected. Intresting to note the advanced small arms that the German's produced during the war. Not only this design that is generally considered to be the fore-runner of the modern assult rifle, but the MG42 machine gun that is still used in an updated form by the Bundeswehr and the Walther type of pistol (this is from memory so please correct if wrong!)
     
    jmaccyd, Apr 29, 2008
    #23
  4. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Member

    . How reliable was it I wonder?

    The basic design was reliable, though some commentators still feel that it was 'over-engineered' for its purpose. In-the-field unreliability occurred due the manufacturing situation in Germany ; the gun was pre-fabricated by many manufacturers with the parts being assembled later which led to numerous problems with non-interchangeability of supposedly interchangeable parts. Reliable manufacture and assembly was apparently disrupted by Allied air-raids. In addition, molten lacquer from the steel-cased ammo tended to jam the weapon unless it was cleaned frequently. Finally, as the weapon was stamped, riveted and welded together, if it ran into trouble on the battlefield it was almost impossible to fully strip ; you had to throw it away and get another one.

    But the gun is deservedly a famous design.....
     
    Martin Bull, May 4, 2008
    #24
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  5. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Its amazing what they were able to introduce under such conditions as was the case in Germany in 1944 but I suppose necessity is the mother of invention.
     
    Gerard, May 5, 2008
    #25
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    A superb weapon that was widely respected. Intresting to note the advanced small arms that the German's produced during the war. Not only this design that is generally considered to be the fore-runner of the modern assult rifle, but the MG42 machine gun that is still used in an updated form by the Bundeswehr and the Walther type of pistol (this is from memory so please correct if wrong!)
    Jmac, the design you are referring to (in regard to the HMG) is the MG3, produced by Rheinmetall. Its still in use today, and equips German Armor. Its in use all over the world from Australia to Turkey. Beautiful piece of equipment too.
     
    Gerard, May 5, 2008
    #26
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    For anyone who has the Handrich 'Sturmgewehr!' book.
    Good updates to print & slip in:
    The MP44 section

    For what it's worth, my somewhat effusive review of Handrich's book from 'What are you reading?' a while back:
    Sturmgewehr!-From Firepower to Striking Power by Hans-Dieter Handrich.
    [​IMG]

    600 pages of intense detail on Germany's hunt for the self loading rifle.
    About the best technical history of a specific weapon I've ever read, exhaustive and well illustrated on everything from WW1 tactical needs onwards, with particular focus on the difficult birth of the Kurz round and a wealth of detail on several other weapons aside from the main StG44 story, from M35s to FG42s and assorted Volksgewehrs.
    Very hard to not to become rather dull on such a subject, but Handrich manages it by breaking down every single twist and turn in the story into bite-size chunks so that at no point does the technical detail bury the overall narrative. Nor does he really make any assertion without backing it up with some document (usually reproduced in full) or convincing reference to other evidence.
    Where missing documents mean some speculation is required he's always absolutely clear when he's doing this, and explains his reasoning fully, not something one always sees in this area.

    A most impressive part of the book is the actual reports from both front-line troops, the WaA, GenInf, and proving grounds. For instance all other books I have say the first troop trial of the MKb42 was a disaster, Handrich shows the report by the men on the ground that has them deployed in Dunes, where the sand immediately jammed the mechanisms, with the entire platoon finishing the attack with Soviet SMGs.
    Each of the rejections of the weapon/concept by Adolf is also covered in full detail, I may previously have read that the weapon was 'displayed to Hitler', I now know exactly how it was displayed right down to the way targets were laid out, and the kind of simulated attack that was demonstrated.
    Seemingly a very high price for one book (which I didn't pay thanks to evilBay), but one of those titles that's actually a bargain, even at full whack, as it makes so many lesser titles immediately look irrelevant.
    I kept thinking "why can't all books be as well done as this one".
    Not only first rate on the Sturmgewehr, but also full of insight into the German industrial, testing, and procurement processes relating to all weapons.

    In short, I quite liked it :biggrin:.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
    von Poop, Oct 16, 2012
    #27
  8. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Wills, Oct 16, 2012
    #28
  9. TonyE

    TonyE Senior Member

    ....... In addition, molten lacquer from the steel-cased ammo tended to jam the weapon unless it was cleaned frequently. Finally, as the weapon was stamped, riveted and welded together, if it ran into trouble on the battlefield it was almost impossible to fully strip ; you had to throw it away and get another one.

    But the gun is deservedly a famous design.....

    As an ex-owner of an StG.43 (prior to the 1988 Firearms Act amendmants) I cannot agree with you.

    I fired thousands if rounds through mine, much of it lacquered steel case, with no problems.

    The bonderising process used by the Germans on their 7.92x33mm ammunition was exactly the same as that on the 7.92x57mm Infantry cartridge and that worked fine in MG42s at 1200 rpm.

    Also, the weapon could be field stripped as far as any other weapon. The trigger group could be swung down to replace any springs and was no different to say an MG42. I changed the barrel on mine after I allowed an idiot to fire his hadloads and he bulged the barrel. It was simply a case of knocking the pins out and fitting a new barrel.

    Regards
    TonyE
     
    TonyE, Oct 16, 2012
    #29
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Hickock45 has got around to one of his rambles on an MP44:
    (If you don't know Hickock - don't expect solid gold historical detail, he certainly never claims to be a know-all. More a light stripdown, and his own personal musings. An enthusiast - I find him entertaining. Rare appearance by his son, who I see also likes to ramble...)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMK5OGEIbwk


    Very not cheap...
    http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/58/lid/571
     
    von Poop, Jan 31, 2016
    #30
  11. REME245

    REME245 Active Member

    I remember when a big batch of these came in to the UK during the 1980's along with MP41's from memory east Germany.

    As usual the market was swamped and there was little interest. Wish I had brought both at the time.
     
    REME245, Jan 31, 2016
    #31
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Don't think I've seen this 1946 clip from Pathé before:

     
    von Poop, Oct 18, 2019
    #32
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