Stalingrad- What would you do?

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by Mikal14, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. Mikal14

    Mikal14 Junior Member

    Ok, lets say you are the German general at Stalingrad, what would you have done different? how would you have fought and so on? :D
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Take that other rear area staff job.
    Paris.
    Champagne.
    Gurlz.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As Adam says, not bloody have been there for a start.
    "Oh is that my old war wound playing up ? I need a spot of leave in South America."
     
  4. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Mikal,
    No offense intended, but you need to be more finite in your question. What would he (Paulus) have done differently regarding what aspect of the 5 1/2 month battle? At the strategic level, his hands were pretty much tied by OKH. At the operational level, he a bit more freedom, but still he was pretty much locked in a battle of attrition with very little room for change. He probably had very little influence over the tactical aspects of the battle.

    A good suggestions is to use the search feature above and type in words like Stalingrad, Paulus, Uranus, sixth / 6th Army, Chuikov or 4th / Fourth Panzer Army and you can probably find where this subject has been discussed ad nauseum.
     
  5. Mikal14

    Mikal14 Junior Member

  6. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Go to the Bahamas and keep company to the Duke of Windsor.
     
  7. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Well Stragically Paulas should avoided being encircled, He was assured by Hitler and OKW not to try and break out. He should have disobeyed the order. He would have lost his job but the 6th Army would have been saved (for now).

    My own personel opinion is that Hitler sacrificed the 6th a sort of fatilistic survival of the fittest scenario hge was prone too so anything PAulas would have done would have been in vain.

    Kev
     
  8. did paulus have the option of bypassing stalingrad with his main units to press on towards the caucaus oil region ( which was the main objective of that summer offensive right ? ).
     
  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    No, he did not have that much latitude. His directed goal was Stalingrad

    Originally the 4th Panzer Army was on his left and Herr Schnicklegruber ordered it cross behind the 6th Army's line of advance, causing unnecessary delays, and proceed to the South, only to have it turn around and come up on the 6th's right.
     
  10. machine shop tom

    machine shop tom Senior Member

    As has been said, Hitler was unequivocal. No retreat and fight to the death. A few German generals got away with strategic withdrawals, but it was a risky thing to do in the Third Reich.

    tom
     
  11. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Senior Member

    Before starting that campaign I would have culled the necessary troops and equipment to triple the number of railway repair units operating in the region. I would have gone so far as to use units specifically being held for later in the campaign such as Oil Brigade Caucaus for general engineering support.
    My intent as commander would have been to force forward a railhead to within 100 km of Stalingrad and open spur lines to forces on either side. Preferably, a double track woul be optimal but a good single line with sidings would have done the trick initially.
    This would free the Luftwaffe to concentrate on operational targets rather than supply missions (yes, the Luftwaffe was flying in huge quantities of supplies even prior to the Soviet offensive).
    It would also ensure that troops could be shifted to meet the Soviet offensive when it happened.
    The lack of engineering support was a major reason the Wehrmacht failed at Stalingrad.
     
  12. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Before starting that campaign I would have culled the necessary troops and equipment to triple the number of railway repair units operating in the region.

    I readily admit to not being as "au fais" with the Eastern Front as many others on this forum however it seems to me that Hitler did not have the required respect for his enemy and its geographic location.

    I say Hitler because he set the parameters not the experienced generals. From what I have read, they were aware of the dangers and the history of those who have invaded Russia.

    As you say in the quote, and I agree it is with hindsight, you would be thinking along the lines of what an American or British structure may do in preparation.

    The German war machine was renowned for their effective and efficient use of rail systems. Surely that "machine" would have pencilled in these requirements from a logistical aspect.

    Did Hitler have such contempt for Stalin and his people that the normal macro and micro preparations were thrown out of the window.

    Rail, Locomotives, Rolling Stock and trucks (to name a few) supplied under Lend and Lease were paramount in the ability of Russia to resist. (There have been many pro Stalinites on this forum who have denied that this assistance was crucial in the ability of Russia to survive)

    So, was it Hitler that lost it by his interference or could Germany never have succeeded.
     
  13. GrossBorn

    GrossBorn Junior Member

    At one point, the Red Army was only holding on to a very thin sliver of Stalingrad and the only reinforcements were coming by ferry across the Volga River. If Paulus could have stymied these reinforcements by concentrating artillery barrages on both the debarkation and landing sites along with all his available airpower to strafe the river itself, he may have forced the Soviets to surrender in the city itself. This would have allowed him to get most of his units out of the city and reinforce his flanks that were held by the minor axis allies (Italians and Romanians). Whether this would have blunted the Soviet attack is conjecture, but he would have had a much better chance of repulsing the Red Army in this scenario.
     
  14. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    GrossBorn....the name looks familiar... :p:cowboy_125:
     
  15. GrossBorn

    GrossBorn Junior Member

    GrossBorn....the name looks familiar... :p:cowboy_125:

    Hi Jeff!!! Just found this site...;)

    Your home state has let my man, McCain down!!!
     
  16. freebird

    freebird Senior Member

    Before starting that campaign I would have culled the necessary troops and equipment to triple the number of railway repair units operating in the region. I would have gone so far as to use units specifically being held for later in the campaign such as Oil Brigade Caucaus for general engineering support.
    My intent as commander would have been to force forward a railhead to within 100 km of Stalingrad and open spur lines to forces on either side. Preferably, a double track woul be optimal but a good single line with sidings would have done the trick initially.
    This would free the Luftwaffe to concentrate on operational targets rather than supply missions (yes, the Luftwaffe was flying in huge quantities of supplies even prior to the Soviet offensive).
    It would also ensure that troops could be shifted to meet the Soviet offensive when it happened.
    The lack of engineering support was a major reason the Wehrmacht failed at Stalingrad.

    Great post T.A., many people forget that it was often the better logistics that tipped the balance. "Stalingrad" just happened to be the place where the German advance "ran out of steam". I don't think Stalingrad could be a "win" for Germany, they could only prevent a "loss". germany had missed the oppertunity to "win" the war, and by Dec 1942, IMHO, they were just starting to try to hold on to what they had. They needed to have knocked the British out of Africa and strangled the Allied supply lines already, that would be how they could win the war, not some brilliant strategy at Stalingrad.
     
  17. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    In addition to all opinions mentioned above I have to say that germans lost opportunity to win war in moment when they invaded to USSR. History says - no country can fight on 2 or more fronts.
     
  18. onele

    onele Junior Member

    As far as your question is concerned, Paulus was completely screwed. Their was nothing he could do at that point because his entire army was hosed from the moment they crossed the Don. If he had tried to take any freedom af action, which he did request, Hitler would have told Von Bock that he had a new roommate and then declared himself the new commander of the sixth army.
     
  19. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    In addition to all opinions mentioned above I have to say that germans lost opportunity to win war in moment when they invaded to USSR. History says - no country can fight on 2 or more fronts.

    Exactly.

    It was demonstrated in the First World War that Germany could not fight on two fronts.As a "modern" power, Germany was doomed to defeat whenever it chose expansion on two fronts.Both world wars were remote from the 1870 war,technology had moved on but still a fighting force depended on large number of combat troops on the ground which Germany did not have enough.Further due to its geophyical postion, Germany could not command the high seas and imports, (petrol and ore etc) very important for waging war were denied to them.

    Germany's forces throughout their defeats were always beaten by encirclement a trap they always fell into by the rigid policies of Hitler who had never been a trained as a military leader.

    Logistics were another problem which encumbered them.The Russian wider rail gauge presented huge problems for a European power expanding east.Largely throughout the war the Reichbann were carying deportees to extermination and labour camps rather than the priority being a military role.In the critical period for Germany before its collapse, Himmler would have appeared to have more priority over the use of German railways than the military organisations defending the western and eastern borders.
     
  20. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Before starting that campaign I would have culled the necessary troops and equipment to triple the number of railway repair units operating in the region. I would have gone so far as to use units specifically being held for later in the campaign such as Oil Brigade Caucaus for general engineering support.
    My intent as commander would have been to force forward a railhead to within 100 km of Stalingrad and open spur lines to forces on either side. Preferably, a double track woul be optimal but a good single line with sidings would have done the trick initially.
    This would free the Luftwaffe to concentrate on operational targets rather than supply missions (yes, the Luftwaffe was flying in huge quantities of supplies even prior to the Soviet offensive).
    It would also ensure that troops could be shifted to meet the Soviet offensive when it happened.
    The lack of engineering support was a major reason the Wehrmacht failed at Stalingrad.


    Would this have been any use whatsoever once the couldron was encircled?

    Dont get encircled.

    Kev
     

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