Stalag IV-D (Zw) Help needed!

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by MelMel, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Hello Gents,

    Recently I dug up a Stalag ID tag. Now i'm trying to start up a research who owned the tag.
    These are my results Stalag IV-D was located in Torgau and liberated by the Americans and Russians late 1945. However the tag has been found 500+ miles from the POW camp.
    So my question is could someone help me out with the tag number (2063). ??
    And what is the meaning of (Zw) behind Stalag IV-D ??
    Thanks in advantage !!
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945

    Name: P A T Holme
    Rank: Captain
    Army Number: 117122
    Regiment: Hampshire Regiment
    POW Number: 2063
    Camp Type: Oflag
    Camp Number: 79
    Camp Location: Brunswick, Lower Saxony


    Name: F W McLaren
    Rank: Company Serjeant Major
    Army Number: 6280241
    Regiment: Royal Engineers
    POW Number: 2063
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: 383
    Camp Location: Hohenfels, Rhineland-Palatinate
    Record Office: Royal Engineers Record Office, Ditchling Road, Brighton, Sussex
    Record Office Number: 9


    The 2 above are the only ones I can presently find with POW number 2063. It is highly possible that one or other could have moved camp towards the end of war to Stalag IV-D.

    TD
     
  3. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Not full aware of circumstances on these camps but the POW's would more than likely either have moved camp or been involved with the marches.

    The POW Liberation Questionnaires will tell you which of these two, if indeed either, were at the camp to confirm ownership, always supposing they completed a Questionnaire.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  4. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    ZW is an abbreviation of Zweig, meaning Branch.

    Stalag1V-D was first set up at Neuburxdorf August 1940 (about 30 klms S/East of Torgau).

    Stalag1V-D Torgau was set up Feb 1941, so therefore becoming ZW a branch of the one at Neuburxdorf.

    However the one at Neuburxdorf was closed in July 1941, so the one at Torgau became the main camp, and the ZW was dropped.

    So in theory whenever the ZW is used to donate Stalag1V-D it refers to the period before Feb 1941.
     
  5. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Thank you very much for the help so far! However I did not manage to trace down one of the British PoW's.
    I think it was also impossible due to the fact the tag was located on a American held area.
    Hopefully someone has info wich is referring to a American PoW.
     
  6. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Unlikely if it was issued prior to February 1941
     
  7. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Hahah this is getting very confusing. I'm a bit lost in the woods. If the British forces joined the American it's plausible because if he was captured as a POW in Dunkerke and later on returned at the front. It's logic. But its nearly impossible if i'm right.
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    This officer was not serving in France during 1940 with the 2nd Battalion Hampshire Regiment. So if what you say is correct that he was captured at Dunkirk then I'd be looking at the Royal Engineers CSM.
     
  9. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Hey Drew.. No it's just guessing what might have been correct. I don't know if i'm thinking in the right direction. Because it sounds strange: A stalag ID tag possible British ident .. In a American liberated region. And I was thinking about Dunkirke because the ID tag refers to a branch from stalag IV-D Wich was active till 1941.
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    He's not mentioned in the regimental history. I'll have a look at some of the other Hampshire war diaries that I have
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Found him

    In Dec 1942 he was D Company Commander, 5th Battalion, The Royal Hampshire Regiment. They were in Fleet at this time which I believe is in Essex off the top of my head.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Best guess (Some of the diary is missing/lost) he was captured sometime in between 1st and 26th February 1943.
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Many British and Commonwealth POW's were liberated by the American Army - it isn't strange

    TD

    edited to add:
    Good research there Drew :salut:
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  14. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Fleet Hampshire nr Farnborough and Aldershot.
     
  15. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Hhmmm by the information I have at the moment I don't believe it's the correct one. The area where I found the tag is liberated in late 1944.. stalag IV-D was located 500+Miles to the east in enemy teritory.. So the camp was not yet liberated.
    I also looked in NARA and there are about 417 US PoW's registered in Stalag IV-D (Zw). So its a needle in a haystack. Thanks for the good research! Unfortunately the search continues.
     
  16. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Mel mel If the tag was found 500mls east of stalag 1V-D then the area it was found in would be around Lodz in Poland. I think we need to start again.
    what is the exact numbers and letters on the tag?
    You cannot rely on exact dates that zw was put on the tag nor can you rely on which troops were exactly where at a given time.
     
  17. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    Lets start again.. I found this on the Western front know as Siegfried line. The numbers I gave are correct how they appear on the tag, after cleaning. Engraved is: Stalag IV-D (Zw)
    T 2063
    So Torgau is roughly 500+ miles east from the spot where I found the tag. Siegfried line has been crossed in late 1944 and Stalag IV-D is liberated in late 1945.
    And there is no evidence of British troops in this siegfried line area. Hopefully this is better explained haha.
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Apparently this camp was actually liberated in late April 1945 and not late 1945 - big difference

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalag_IV-D
    The camps were liberated in late April 1945

    Is it possible that the soldier with his tags was liberated then at some point on his way home either lost or discarded his POW tag in the place you found it.

    TD
     
  19. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Whoops I made an error in my last post, just read melmel's post too quick.

    The actual spot where the tag is found is more important than what troops occupied the area.

    A lot of Pows headed west so they had to cross the Siegfried line somewhere.
    If I recall some of the long marches ended in pows camps close to that area.

    Now we know that the pow that lost the tag was registered at Stalag1V-d (ZW) However we do not know that he remained there until it was liberated. He could have been in a work party elsewhere.

    Take your pick from this list.
    http://www.gcjonline.co.uk/AK list.htm
     
  20. MelMel

    MelMel Member

    @RCG... No worries haha.. It's difficult to explain in a simple way and even more confusing. Due to the extreme distance. And the answer to your question: T from Torgau is engraved.
     

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