Hi there I am researching my Husband's Great Uncle.. WEAVER, SIDNEY OLIVER Rank: Driver Service No: T/99359 Date of Death: 05/06/1940 Age: 21 Regiment/Service: Royal Army Service Corps Grave Reference A, 20. Cemetery ST. VALERY-EN-CAUX FRANCO-BRITISH CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Fransis Eugene and Emma Weaver, of Caldmore, Walsall, Staffordshire. He was buried in the above cemetery, would that mean he died in this town? Does anyone know how I can find out more about him? Any help or information would be appreciated! Kind regards Christine Weaver
Hi Christine, That could wel be. In 1940 Saint Valery en Caux would have been one of the evacuation harbours for the troops surrounded by the Germans. But one of the causes that this did not seem to have happened was that the village is surrounded by hills and so is the harbour. Not a good place to embark, and so it happened that the soldiers had to fight to preserve a safe perimeter, because of the surrounding hills not an easy task. Later the weather also became on the hand of the Germans and the French troops gave up the fight so for the BEF troops there was one thing to do. And so they surrendered, but the fighting for the town costed many lives. I believe Rommel also visited the town and spoke with the British commander after his surrender. When we visited the town we did not see the cemetary we only went there in our search for German bunkers of the Atlantikwall. JK
I know that this doesn't answer your question, but it tells of the attempt to rescue these men, there are a number of military experts on this site who can give you the background to these unlucky men being cut off. 140,000 more members of the BEF were able to make their way westward and were mostly saved in Operation Aerial. Operation Cycle - St Valery, Veules and Le Havre After Dunkirk, Admiral Sir William James, the Commander in Chief, Portsmouth, was given the task of overseeing the evacuation of about 20,000 British troops which had remained back from the coast between Dieppe and Le Havre. The 'large store ships' (merchant cargo ships) Belgravian, Kyno, Maplewood, Sakara and Trentino, who were at Southampton, were put on six hours’ notice: each had a carrying capacity of about 1,000. There were 'at least' ten coasters: Cameo, Glamis, Goldfinch, Guernsey Queen, Scheldt and Silver Coast at Poole; Felspar, Lowick and Sandhill at Newhaven, and Gorsefield at Littlehampton. The coasters were reckoned to be able to carry about 500 men each: they were also placed at six hours’ notice. The Ministry of Shipping promised that, given twenty four hours’ notice, they could provide another ten coasters and three personnel ships. Each of the personnel ships had a capacity of 1,500. In all sixty-seven merchant ships and 140 small craft were to be made available. The latter included fishing vessels, tugs, excursion boats, merchant ships' lifeboats, naval cutters and other small craft. Six beach masters, each with a ten strong beach party and wireless sets and telegraphists, were provided. The Dutch schuyts, which had proved so useful at Dunkirk, were lying at Poole being de-stored before being handed back to the Dutch Shipping Board. It was said to be ‘doubtful… if they will be available for 48 hours.’ At 2000 on Saturday 8 June the Naval Officer in Charge at Poole was informed by the Ministry of Shipping that these vessels might be urgently required. The equipment that had been moved to the Goldfinch was put back on the Schuyts and they were re-fuelled. Six Sub Lieutenants were sent from Portsmouth to Poole by bus, each with a crew of one Leading Seaman, four Seamen, one Engine Room Artificer, one Leading Stoker and a 2nd Class Stoker. They had no weapons except for a revolver for each of the Sub Lieutenants. Fortunately the Dutch Masters and Engineers arrived at Poole on Saturday night; they volunteered to help the naval ERAs with the bunkering and showed them how to operate the engines. The schuyts were then to be brought down below Poole Bridge and watered at the Town Quay. All were ready to sail by 2000 on Sunday 9 June when they were notified that 'Cycle' was suspended. The British withdrawal had been delayed to allow the French evacuation to proceed during the night of 9/10 June. At that time the schuyts were at Hamworthy (above the lifting bridge) and in Brownsea Roads, near the entrance to the natural harbour. The coasters with cargoes of cased petrol had been anchored in Poole Bay, to minimise the fire risk. Only the passenger ships were equipped with wireless, this shortcoming was to make for considerable problems during the Operation. On Monday orders were received to collect all small craft that could be towed; because they had been used in Operation Dynamo most were still at Dover. It was decided not to send fishing boats from Poole. Permission was given for small boats to be loaded on the schuyts' decks and by 1600 the boats had been assembled at the Fish Dock and at Sandbanks. The MT shipment was broached and petrol for the small craft was loaded onto Pacific and Zeus. At 1800 orders were received to sail immediately. When the fleet sailed at around 2000 the motor boats were left at Sandbanks, because the British vessels with derricks that could have loaded the boats were still out in Poole Bay. For the ships from the Solent, Operation Cycle began early in the afternoon of 9 June. The railway ships Amsterdam, Archangel, Bruges and Vienna sailed from Southampton and the Lairds Isle from Portsmouth. A variety of tugs towing small craft and fishing vessels were also sailed from Portsmouth and nearby ports. The Royal Navy sent the destroyers Ambuscade, Boadicea, Broke, Bulldog, Codrington, Fernie, Harvester and Saladin, which were ordered to remain off Le Havre. The coasters Corina and Sandhill sailed from Newhaven on the tenth, each with a dozen boats in tow. Admiral James went to Le Havre in MTB 29 to assess how the situation might develop: during his absence the fast passenger ships were sailed for Havre to be ready for an evacuation on the night of 10/11June. Indications were that up to 60,000 might need to be evacuated. The Ministry of Shipping figures were much higher, at 200/300,000. Bulldog and Boadicea were hit during the heavy bombing on the evening of 10 June and orders were given not to close the evacuation beaches during daylight, except for urgent reasons. The French 9th Corps, which included the British 51st Highland Division, was cut off from escape through Le Havre. The 51st Division's withdrawal through St Valery was blocked by French mechanical transport and their evacuation had not been approved by the French High Command. At 0600/11 the train ferry Hampton, which was just completing naval service, landed a small beach party at St Valery. At that time there was no shelling in the area, but by 1100 the beaches were being shelled. Saladin reported that the 51st Division, of about 20,000, was formed in a hollow square round St Valery and arrangements were being made to evacuate them after dark. Ships and transports were being shelled and bombed during the forenoon of the 11 June and Admiral James ordered them to retire to the north-west. During the withdrawal the vessels were heavily dive-bombed. At one time Hampton was attacked by thirty aircraft. With no fighter support the fleet were fortunate not to suffer loss. At some point fog added to their problems and delayed their return to St Valery when the French Admiral authorised the evacuation that evening. Le Havre had also been heavily bombed and reports were received that four of the fifteen merchant ships anchored there were disabled: in the event only the Bruges had been sunk. Three bombs had been directed at the vessel, one entered her forward hold and the other two fell close by. As she was in danger of sinking the Bruges was beached and abandoned. All seventy-two crew survived. The St Serriol was damaged when a bomb exploded beneath her engine room. Most of the ships came under fire, or air attack, during the evacuation. The RN manned schuyt Twente was hit in three places and sank. Another schuyt grounded on a falling tide and was lost. This may have been Hebe II, Sub Lieut John Pryor, which had been sent in to the beach because it seemed deserted. Pryor and his crew were captured and made to walk all the way to the prison camp at Bremen (MARLAG). The Duke of York was hit three times, her Chief Officer threw an unexploded shell over the side. At 2100 on 9 June Cameo (Captain S Masson) received orders to proceed to seven miles west of Cape Le Havre. At 2210, while underway, she was told to return to the anchorage. On 10 June at 2200 she was ordered to proceed to position off St Valery-en-Caux. She spent the night on reduced speed because of thick fog. She was stopped at 1100 on 11 June to await orders and at 1130 the convoy was told to proceed to Fecamp. At noon a destroyer ordered the ships to put back, owing to enemy action, and several bombs were dropped near convoy. At 1700 she was attacked by enemy planes during fog, but again escaped. At 2130 she received orders to follow Goldfinch, which had boats in tow. She arrived off the beach at 0100 on 12 June and anchored a quarter of a mile off. At 0330 a drifter arrived with boats, but with no men to man them. The drifter was told to come alongside and Cameo's men manned the boats and took them in to the beach. They transferred one boat load to the drifter and took the next six boat loads on the Cameo; as the last boat left the beach they came under shell and machine gun fire. As they had no food and water and the troops were 'starving' the Master signalled the cruiser Cardiff and went alongside her, obtaining stores and transferring three (six?) wounded soldiers. During this manoeuvre Cameo got severe damage to the ship's side. At 2130 they received orders to proceed to home port. They anchored in Poole Bay at 0630 on 13 June. The pilot boarded at 0930 and they berthed at Poole Quay at 1100. By the morning of 12 June enemy fire at St Valery was intense and maximum air support was requested. The 51st Division were ordered to cease fire; this was the only instance during the campaign when a body of men could not be rescued. At 1821 Admiral James ordered the Senior Naval Officer to withdraw his force. The withdrawing ships were to turn back out-coming vessels, but they missed several, which were heavily attacked Train Ferry No 2 was lost. Captain H H Quail of the Guernsey Queen made a one page report, in which the dates and times are similar to those reported by Captain Masson. At 1230 on 11 June they were attacked by Nazi bombers. They were then ordered to follow Jade to a position off St Valery, where they were damaged in another raid. At 0030 on 12 June they embarked about 100 men, touching bottom at the time. They returned to a cove off Veules, where they remained under fire, receiving a hit on the starboard side aft, which damaged the water tanks, a lifeboat, the funnel and the hull. They arrived at Poole at 1030 on 13 June and disembarked the troops. Cdr H W Green. RNR STO Poole amplified the Masters' reports: ‘On June 13th vessels commenced returning to Poole, Cameo with over 400 troops, Guernsey Queen with about 90. The Masters' reports cover the interim. I would respectfully point out that these men are not able to write adequately of what they have done. This is particularly true of the Cameo and Guernsey Queen. The Master of the Cameo, Stephen Masson, the Mate, Neil MacKinnon and the crew of this vessel deserve special praise. The Master is an old gentleman of 69 years of age and whilst the crew were pulling the lifeboats he was alone on board with only the Second Engineer. The Mate, Neil MacKinnon, was on the beach preventing the overcrowding of the boats. It should be remembered that the heavy boat work was done by men who had had no rest for 48 hours. The Master was continuously on the Bridge from leaving Poole on the 10th to returning on the 13th, no mean feat for a man of his years. The Guernsey Queen apparently took up inshore berth as vacated by Cameo and Captain Quail did everything possible up to the last moment.’ Roebuck (Captain Larbalestier) and Sambur (Captain Sanderson) were cargo ships owned by the Great Western Railway. They normally operated a service from Weymouth to the Channel Islands. They left Weymouth together at 1405 on 12 June, bound for the Normandy coast. At 0150 on 13 June, having seen fires onshore, they eased down awaiting daylight. At 0410 they proceeded towards St. Valery and at 0415 made contact with fishermen, who were about five miles off the port. The Master of the Roebuck, who spoke French, understood from the fishermen that it was safe to approach the coast and he signalled the Sambur with the information. When they were within a mile of the port the enemy opened fire from the cliff tops with about nine guns. Both ships turned and zigzagged at full speed, but both sustained serious damage and casualties. On Roebuck, the Second Officer was killed outright and the RN Signalman was badly wounded, as were the Chief Officer and one greaser. On Sambur two of the crew were killed and four were seriously injured. Both ships were badly damaged. With the exception of one AB who jumped over the side and was lost, the Roebuck's crew behaved splendidly. The Gunner, Leslie Mavey, was singled out for special praise: he took charge of the wounded, including the Chief Officer, whose place he took during the return passage to Newhaven. On Sambur the behaviour of all was very commendable. Sambur's standard compass had been smashed, so the Roebuck escorted her sister back to Newhaven, where they landed the dead and the injured. The dead were recorded as Sambur: John Jones, Chief Steward (two in ship's report); Roebuck: Richard Wills, AB; Herbert Caddy; William Williams, Second Officer. Those killed on the Train Ferry No.2 (LNER), which was shelled off St Valery-en-Caux and beached were recorded as: Reginald Barker, Fireman; Leonard Burger, Radio Officer; Douglas Catchpole, Fourth Engineer Officer; Owen Gage, AB; Donald Hambling, Fireman; William Maryan, Donkeyman; John Miller, Second Engineer Officer; Ralph Moore, AB; Walter Pells, Chief Steward; John Simmen, AB; Herbert Snelling, Fireman; George Starkey, Second Officer; William Stokes, AB and Richard Summers, Donkeyman. Captain Painter of the Goldfinch was somewhat aggrieved that his ship's contribution was ignored. The officer in charge of a party of naval ratings who were put aboard his ship expressed his complete satisfaction with the Goldfinch crew's performance. The situation was probably not helped by the fact that the officer, Probationary Temporary Lieut. J C Thompson RNR, was awarded a DSC. When Lieut. Thompson heard of the omission he made a supplementary report, in an effort to get recognition for the Goldfinch. In it he pointed out that the crew were involved in a great deal of boat work and saved between 500 and 600 soldiers, whom they transferred to the Princess Maud and other ships. The ship's Second Officer, with two seamen, took charge of part of the beach party 'under trying circumstances.' Both they and their ship came under hostile gunfire, and the vessel took two shell hits and suffered one fatality. The Chief Officer and the Chief Engineer ‘in the course of their duties' made repairs to the ship's degaussing gear. The St Briac, Amsterdam, Tynwald, Theems and Emerald left St Valery for Cherbourg during the night of 12/13 June with 4,000 troops, including the rear guard; the Lowick carried the beach party. These ships were escorted by destroyers Fernie and Vega.
He was buried in the above cemetery, would that mean he died in this town? Does anyone know how I can find out more about him? Any help or information would be appreciated! Its a good possibility that he died in the town but I suspect his date of death is a little early to assume he was killed there unless it was a bombing raid. He may have died there whilst in the care of the Royal Army Medical Corps waiting to be evacuated along with other wounded. My first suggestion should you come back would be to apply for a copy of his service records-These will tell you what unit, probably a company, he was in under the RASC cap badge. Knwing this info you can ID his units war diaries and hopefully find out more info. Cheers Andy
Hi Christine I have been researching Walsall and district RoH for some time but have very little on Sidney. All I really have is below which you already know. Sidney was the son of Francis Eugene and Emma (nee Cooper) Weaver of 9, Thelma Street, Walsall and later of 12, Hart Street, Caldmore, his father being a railways guardsman. He is commemorated on the RoH in Walsall Town Hall and also on the Services Memorial Club War Memorial, Caldmore Road, Walsall, which I have been unable to locate. The local newspapers did not [FONT="][/FONT] publish his portrait. Do you have a picture of him, at all ?? Regards, Graeme
One passage in Roy Martin's detailed post above caught my attention: "Another schuyt grounded on a falling tide and was lost. This may have been Hebe II, Sub Lieut John Pryor, which had been sent in to the beach because it seemed deserted. Pryor and his crew were captured and made to walk all the way to the prison camp at Bremen (MARLAG)." I am researching what happened to Hebe II's crew after capture; here are their names, rates & service numbers: Leading Seaman Edward Purcell, P/J 115730, repatriated July 1943 Able Seaman Malcolm Macdonald, X.19193A Able Seaman Charles Maclean, X.22404 Ordinary Seaman David John Bennett Hobbs, P/JX 165299 Ordinary Seaman William Ivor Jones, X.9578B Ordinary Seaman Esrom May, killed 15 July 1943 ERA 4th Class William Bennett, P/MX64313 Stoker 1st Class [first name?] Smith, landed at Poole 11 June 1940 Stoker 2nd Class William Arthur Grout, P/KX101942 The CO, Lt Dennis Bennett-Jones, was wounded and taken to a hospital. I believe he was repatriated eventually and had no contact with the rest of his crew. I'm in Canada so visiting Kew isn't an option, but I'd be most grateful for any suggestions as to how or where to look for further information on these men. Also, can the OP or anyone else identify the source of Roy's post? Cheers, Jay
Hi Jay, Knowing Roy the info either comes from the National Archives records or his book/research. Either way I'm sure he'll be along to confirm this at some point. Ref your men-Some may have completed PoW Liberation Reports at the end of the war- Lee (pyscwar.org) offers forum members a copying service for these files. I don't copying them on there own I'm affraid. You may want to send him a message to see if he can help. Cheers Andy
Yes the quote is from my book Merchantmen in Action. It should have said that these unfortunate men were marched into captivity. Roy
Thanks, Andy & Roy, for your helpful replies. I don't want to hijack this thread so will move my queries over to Prisoners of War. Cheers, Jay
Thanks Graeme for the picture you sent and all other posts in reply! I have not managed to get Sidney's records yet, will hopefully sometime! Kind regards Christine
Hello Christine, in view of the date of death on 06.05.1940, I think your husband Great Uncle was injured on the way to St Valery en Caux. This date corresponds to the crossing of the Somme and German troops Bresle rivers and therefore the withdrawal of British troops to St Valery en Caux. I think your uncle was injured on the way to St Valery and may died of injuries during the bombing as stated Andy. It is possible that he died in a village near St Valery and his burial is transferred to St Valery after the war. An answer can be found with CGWC if they have an archive of postwar movements burial or so from archives in France, but it is much more complicated than that side. Some communes in France still have archives on the discovery of bodies in the days following the bataille.Si you want I can ask the Mayor for you? excuse me for my english Mathieu matt.reunion@yahoo.fr https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=317693001744575&ref=bookmark
I know it's rather late now but I only just found this post! Esrom May was my wife's Uncle and was killed escaping from Stalag XXIID in July 1943. His death was the subject of an War Crime investigation after the War. Rather tragic as he and my father in law joined the navy from Newfoundland only a short time before this incident. Thanks Ian Smales
To answer Christine's original post, Driver Sidney Weaver was initially buried in Military Plot, Grave No 8 St Saens Hospital Ground (Seine inferior). As he was RASC, t supports the earlier suggestion that he was wounded in the falling back to St Valery. It's possible his vehicle was in a convoy strafed by the Germans, as buried in the same hospital were 3 other RASC men, Sgt J G MacMillan; Drivers A S McIntosh and W Brydson, McIntosh died the day after, 6th and both of the others on 10th June, so they may have been in different incidents. As regards Esrom May, that's an anagram of Morse - or is that coincidence?? Wiki has: (for Stalag XXID (not 22) 15 July 1943 Shooting of two escaping prisoners of war at Working Camp 4 (making a rifle range), Ostrowo. One prisoner, Acting Able Seaman Esrom May of Point Rosie, Newfoundland, died of his wounds but the other, a Scottish private in the Gordon Highlanders, John Stewart, recovered. (If a touch of black humour might be permitted? - Making an escape from a rifle range would be tempting fate, perhaps? ) He also featured in an earlier thread on here Able/Acting Seaman ESROM MAY P/JX 194562
